• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Accessible Van Route - compromised by sloping driveway?

nealderidder

Sawhorse
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
431
Location
Sacramento, CA
Within a parking garage you need a min. 8'-2" clear vertical height along the route an accessible van would take to its parking spot. That van first has to get into the garage. If I have a driveway sloping (say 10%) down to the garage entrance and that entrance had a clear height of 8'-2" I couldn't drive a vehicle that is exactly 8'-2" tall into the garage (without damage) because of the approach angle. Does the 8'-2" dimension account for things such as sloping drives/ramps etc.? Seems like it might since a private passenger van with a wheelchair lift is probably closer to 7' tall. And if we do have to account for it the ADA would need to provide a model vehicle to use in determining the geometry and I dont think I've ever seen that...

Any insight would be appreciated!
 
I've always interpreted the 8'2" clearance to apply for a vehicle going through the opening, not the actual opening height. Thus in a case like you are referencing it would have to be taller to account for the approach angle.
 
1109A.8.1 Vertical clearances. All entrances, exits and vehicular passageways to and from required accessible parking spaces within parking facilities, shall have a minimum vertical clearance of 8 feet 2 inches from the floor to the lowest projection of the ceiling. Reflective warning signs complying with Section 1143A for character height shall be installed at transitions from the 8 feet 2 inch ceiling to lower ceiling heights in vehicular passageways in the same parking level.

The 8'2" clearance is between a floor and a ceiling within a parking facility. There is no ceiling outside of a parking facility and a driveway is not within a parking facility. The slope of a driveway is a decision left up to the owner.
 
Appreciate the input. I've got two replies with opposite views. Anyone else have any experience with this? Anyone ever have an inspector get this deep in the weeds on this particular requirement?
 
The 8'-2" tall vehicle has to be able to get into the garage. The only exception might be if there is an equal covered parking facility nearby. I understand that California is very strict with accessibility, so I'm not sure if that would fly.
 
I'm with ICE on this. The letter of the law specifically refers to the "opening", and says that you measure "vertically" from the floor to the lowest projection of the ceiling. Which is how I would personally enforce it.

As to what the intent was when it was written, I don't know if they accounted for that or not. Also, whether it would fly in your area, I don't know. That will be up to the local AHJ. Usually, it is best to contact the local people and discuss with them.
 
+1 on ICE and Beniah Naylor’s comments.
‘The goal of the prescriptive requirement is to describe the minimum required height that will meet code, measured vertically. It is not intended to dictate which kinds of vehicles can successfully navigate that headroom.
It’s analogous to stair headroom height of minimum 6’-8". It’s simply an agreed-upon height, presumably made by people considering all range of possible tradeoffs, providing the greatest good for the greatest number in society. It probably won’t work for a lot of NBA players, and it might be problematic for someone who likes to jump and skip between treads. But you plan-check and inspect for code compliance to the standard prescriptive requirement, not to "what ifs" of hypothetical future users.
 
Last edited:
11B-206.4.2 Parking Structure Entrances
Where direct access is provided for pedestrians from a parking structure to a building or facility entrance, each direct access to the building or facility entrance shall comply with Section 11B-404.

11B-404.1 General
Doors, doorways, and gates that are part of an accessible route shall comply with Section 11B-404.

11B-502.5 Vertical Clearance
Parking spaces, access aisles and vehicular routes serving them shall provide a vertical clearance of 98 inches (2489 mm) minimum.

11B-502.7 Relationship to Accessible Routes
Parking spaces and access aisles shall be designed so that cars and vans, when parked, cannot obstruct the required clear width of adjacent accessible routes.


Based on CBC sections above, i would say yes, the clearance is required, otherwise it is not an accessible route to the spaces.
 
ADA Guy, the OP already said in post #1 that he has 98" vertical clearance, so it complies for vehicles.

There is nothing in the sections you quoted in post #10 that says the vehicular route must also be level (other than at the min. 9'x18' space where the vehicle parks in the accessible parking stall, per 11B-502.4).

Your post #8 says "similar to a door, no?" Here's why I believe the code answer is no:

You quoted "11B-404.1 General
Doors, doorways, and gates that are part of an accessible route shall comply with Section 11B-404."

However, from CBC 202 definition of "Accessible Route":
ACCESSIBLE ROUTE. [DSA-AC & HCD 1-AC] A continuous unobstructed path connecting accessible elements and spaces of an accessible site, building or facility that can be negotiated by a person with a disability USING A WHEELCHAIR, and that is also safe for and usable by persons with other disabilities. Interior accessible routes may include corridors, hallways, floors, ramps, elevators and lifts. Exterior accessible routes may include parking access aisles, curb ramps, crosswalks at vehicular ways, walks, ramps and lifts.​

Since the garage entrance discussed on the OP was a path for using a vehicle to enter the garage, not a path intended for "using a wheelchair", 11B Div 4 would not apply.

Likewise, a vehicle entrance is not subject to 11B-404.2 "manual doors and doorways intended for user passage". (Also worth noting the OP did not even say that there was a vehicle gate, only that it was a "garage entrance".)
 
Last edited:
semantics, to enter and use a garage to a building a WC user driving a van must be able to/ be assisted by his van. It becomes an extension of his WC.
 
ADAGuy, respectfully, I have used the language and definitions published in the code to show that the code sections you stated do not apply. Your response is to call the the definitions in CBC 202 "semantics". What is your method of deciding when code language actually means what it says, and when it's merely "semantics"?

I agree that a wheelchair user should be able to enter the garage using their van. The question then becomes, how much vertical clearance should a garage have to serve the van? A bunch of people at ANSI got together in a committee and decided: 8'-2", then they took a break for lunch. The DOJ decided "that sounds about right", and put 8'-2" in ADA. Once upon a time UFAS said 114", then they said "never mind, let's follow ADA and make it 8'-2". California also followed with 8'-2".

Again, the original post described a situation where the garage DID provide 8'-2" (98") vertical clearance at the entrance.
Thus it already complies with 11B-502.5 which says, "Parking spaces, access aisles and vehicular routes serving them shall provide a vertical clearance of 98 inches (2489 mm) minimum."

The remainder of the original post was wondering whether a vehicle that was built to be 8'-2" tall could successfully pass underneath an 8'-2" tall headroom if drive aisle had an approach slope. But this is irrelevant, because the code does not prescribe the measurement of vehicle height, it prescribes the vertical clearance of the building at any point along the path. Vertical clearance = measured vertically.

The is analogous to wondering whether a 6'-8" tall person would bump their head when ascending/descending a stairway that already has the code-compliant 6'-8" vertical clearance. The answer is: the biometrics and gait of an occupant is irrelevant to the process of plan checking for prescriptive code compliance. You measure the building, not the person. If you as a designer are concerned about this issue, you are free to provide greater vertical clearance than code minimum if you want. Instead, the code committees decided to make a prescriptive requirement that is quickly and easily applied and checked: you measure vertically at every point along the vehicle path for 8'-2" vertical clearance. No need to check for anything else.

Vehicles are unique designs, with varying lengths, varying suspension, varying wheel sizes. Some are customized with lift kits. Some may ride lower when they have a full GVW vs riding empty. They may ride lower on a colder day, when the tire pressure is lower. Some may have bad shocks and bounce while they ride, with a constantly changing height.
Most relevant to what the original poster said, driving on an "approach angle" slope will result in varying vertical heights of the vehicle depending on the wheelbase of the vehicle, the degree of the grade break, and the grade break horizontal location relative to the garage entrance, and the location of the highest point of the car relative to these other points. It will be different for every vehicle.

The code does NOT say "Parking spaces, access aisles and vehicular routes serving them shall provide sufficient clearance for any vehicle that is up to 98 inches in height." A plan checker would have possess all knowledge about the wheelbase, and body shape relative to the wheelbase, of all possible vehicles that would ever enter the garage.

Likewise, an accessible parking stall is prescribed in 502.2 as 9' wide and 18' long. Nothing in 502.2 describes the required back-out space in the adjacent drive aisle; that varies depending on local planning codes.
  • Question: "What if the vehicle is really wide and has a lousy turning radius so that it can't make it into the stall? Or what if the van is longer than 18 feet?"
  • Answer: we are not measuring or designing the vehicle. We are measuring the stall, and the stall size was decided by code committees.
 
Last edited:
+1 on ICE and Beniah Naylor’s comments.
‘The goal of the prescriptive requirement is to describe the minimum required height that will meet code, measured vertically. It is not intended to dictate which kinds of vehicles can successfully navigate that headroom.
It’s analogous to stair headroom height of minimum 6’-8". It’s simply an agreed-upon height, presumably made by people considering all range of possible tradeoffs, providing the greatest good for the greatest number in society. It probably won’t work for a lot of NBA players, and it might be problematic for someone who likes to jump and skip between treads. But you plan-check and inspect for code compliance to the standard prescriptive requirement, not to "what ifs" of hypothetical future users.
This is the conclusion I'm reaching as well. The code could have also been written - sufficient vertical clearance to allow an 8'-2" tall vehicle to pass through - but it wasn't.
 
ADAGuy, respectfully, I have used the language and definitions published in the code to show that the code sections you stated do not apply. Your response is to call the the definitions in CBC 202 "semantics". What is your method of deciding when code language actually means what it says, and when it's merely "semantics"?

I agree that a wheelchair user should be able to enter the garage using their van. The question then becomes, how much vertical clearance should a garage have to serve the van? A bunch of people at ANSI got together in a committee and decided: 8'-2", then they took a break for lunch. The DOJ decided "that sounds about right", and put 8'-2" in ADA. Once upon a time UFAS said 114", then they said "never mind, let's follow ADA and make it 8'-2". California also followed with 8'-2".

Again, the original post described a situation where the garage DID provide 8'-2" (98") vertical clearance at the entrance.
Thus it already complies with 11B-502.5 which says, "Parking spaces, access aisles and vehicular routes serving them shall provide a vertical clearance of 98 inches (2489 mm) minimum."

The remainder of the original post was wondering whether a vehicle that was built to be 8'-2" tall could successfully pass underneath an 8'-2" tall headroom if drive aisle had an approach slope. But this is irrelevant, because the code does not prescribe the measurement of vehicle height, it prescribes the vertical clearance of the building at any point along the path. Vertical clearance = measured vertically.

The is analogous to wondering whether a 6'-8" tall person would bump their head when ascending/descending a stairway that already has the code-compliant 6'-8" vertical clearance. The answer is: the biometrics and gait of an occupant is irrelevant to the process of plan checking for prescriptive code compliance. You measure the building, not the person. If you as a designer are concerned about this issue, you are free to provide greater vertical clearance than code minimum if you want. Instead, the code committees decided to make a prescriptive requirement that is quickly and easily applied and checked: you measure vertically at every point along the vehicle path for 8'-2" vertical clearance. No need to check for anything else.

Vehicles are unique designs, with varying lengths, varying suspension, varying wheel sizes. Some are customized with lift kits. Some may ride lower when they have a full GVW vs riding empty. They may ride lower on a colder day, when the tire pressure is lower. Some may have bad shocks and bounce while they ride, with a constantly changing height.
Most relevant to what the original poster said, driving on an "approach angle" slope will result in varying vertical heights of the vehicle depending on the wheelbase of the vehicle, the degree of the grade break, and the grade break horizontal location relative to the garage entrance, and the location of the highest point of the car relative to these other points. It will be different for every vehicle.

The code does NOT say "Parking spaces, access aisles and vehicular routes serving them shall provide sufficient clearance for any vehicle that is up to 98 inches in height." A plan checker would have possess all knowledge about the wheelbase, and body shape relative to the wheelbase, of all possible vehicles that would ever enter the garage.

Likewise, an accessible parking stall is prescribed in 502.2 as 9' wide and 18' long. Nothing in 502.2 describes the required back-out space in the adjacent drive aisle; that varies depending on local planning codes.
  • Question: "What if the vehicle is really wide and has a lousy turning radius so that it can't make it into the stall? Or what if the van is longer than 18 feet?"
  • Answer: we are not measuring or designing the vehicle. We are measuring the stall, and the stall size was decided by code committees.
Thank you all for weighing in . It's exactly this sort of reasoned argument that makes this site so valuable!
 
Yes, the continuous route for the van to the accessible stall and its access aisles must be 8'-2" clear including all pipes, ductwork, and garage door openings that hang down. Requirements of an accessible route do not apply since the route the van drives may not be the same as the accessible route. That is dependent on the design.
 
Back
Top