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Concessions area sink

Sifu

Sifu

SAWHORSE
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
3,318
I have a stand-alone concession stand building for a large recreational facility. Per plan, there is no cooking, just warming trays and cabinets, refrigerated cases etc. Not even a panini maker. (And they appear everywhere.) It looks like pre-packaged, re-heatable, convenience foods and drinks. There is a single hand sink. IPC 802.1.7 requires that a sink used for washing & rinsing of any of the equipment be indirectly connected, which I assume over-rides the direct connection requirement of 802.1. I don't know a any plumbing code (IPC 2018) that specifically requires a prep sink or hand wash sink. So I assume the single hand wash sink will also act as a waste/wash/rinse sink and that it meets the code.

It really seems like their should be a separate wash sink, indirectly connected, and a hand sink, directly connected. But I'm not sure I can get there with code.

I have asked for a description of the process, including anticipated menu items, which may help me get there (or not) and as far as I can tell right now, their would not be grease laden waste.

I fully understand the local health department (food service), and sanitation district (grease waste) will have their own set of requirements that may make this moot, but pretend I don't know what their comments might be (because I don't).
 
$ ~ $ ~ $

I concur with * fatboy *.......Indirect connection is a must.
While they do not [ initially ] have any type of grease
laden food products, ...IMO eventually they will, because
pizza, hamburgers, hot dogs, etc. sells well !

$ ~ $ ~ $
 
What's grease got to do with it? This is about indirect waste....not a grease interceptor.
 
ICE said:
What's grease got to do with it? This is about indirect waste....not a grease interceptor.
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As Fatboy says....but I review what is in front of me. But it is also why I want some form of process and menu to be included, so that if there is a problem I can point back to it. I only mentioned it to forestall possible comments regarding it. The wastewater authority will ultimately need to sign off on this, so based on the performance language of the code I am not bringing it up since so far they have not included any equipment or appliances that would indicate there will be grease laden waste, unless their process reveals further information that would prompt it. My concern is that with only one sink, all activities will be in that sink, from hand-washing, to ware-washing, to dump station. I just don't see any applicable code that requires another one based on the operation. I am going to require indirect waste.
 
I’m not the sharpest when it comes to health dept and plumbing but I’d bet that a three compartment sink is in their future.
 
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rogerpa said:
Since when are crystal balls allowed? Code section?
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It's a Health Dept. thing. Three compartment sinks are required for almost any food related activity. For example if a Stop&Rob installs an ice maker they have to have a three compartment sink for washing the scoop.

Granted it's a California Health Dept. and I was merely postulating.
 
Is the building big enough for griddles, deep fryers, prep area, storage area, etc? Seems that would be a big clue. Been through this a lot - high school theatre concessions - basic bottled or canned beverages and prepackaged snacks.
 
Sifu said:
I have a stand-alone concession stand building for a large recreational facility. Per plan, there is no cooking, just warming trays and cabinets, refrigerated cases etc. Not even a panini maker. (And they appear everywhere.) It looks like pre-packaged, re-heatable, convenience foods and drinks. There is a single hand sink. IPC 802.1.7 requires that a sink used for washing & rinsing of any of the equipment be indirectly connected, which I assume over-rides the direct connection requirement of 802.1. I don't know a any plumbing code (IPC 2018) that specifically requires a prep sink or hand wash sink. So I assume the single hand wash sink will also act as a waste/wash/rinse sink and that it meets the code.

It really seems like their should be a separate wash sink, indirectly connected, and a hand sink, directly connected. But I'm not sure I can get there with code.

I have asked for a description of the process, including anticipated menu items, which may help me get there (or not) and as far as I can tell right now, their would not be grease laden waste.

I fully understand the local health department (food service), and sanitation district (grease waste) will have their own set of requirements that may make this moot, but pretend I don't know what their comments might be (because I don't).
Click to expand...
Our local health departments (more than a dozen counties that I have work in in the state) have always required a prep sink separate form a hand washing sink. At local summer festivals I even see temporary 3 compartment prep sinks at each food booth regardless of type of food being served, cooked, etc.
 
bill1952 said:
Is the building big enough for griddles, deep fryers, prep area, storage area, etc? Seems that would be a big clue. Been through this a lot - high school theatre concessions - basic bottled or canned beverages and prepackaged snacks.
Click to expand...
Big enough is subjective, but yes, the area could support more equipment, but it is not shown in the equipment plan.

Agree with everybody, the HD, and possibly the sanitation district, will likely require more, but I am not them. All I can do is review based on what they propose and the applicable adopted code. If they get a review from me, then have to revise it based on the HD/sanitation district requirements I will review the changes. I am merely exploring whether there is some code that I administer that is inconsistent with their design as it stands today.
 
Would it be a good idea to require Health Dept approval prior to submitting for Building Dept. plan check?
 
ICE said:
Would it be a good idea to require Health Dept approval prior to submitting for Building Dept. plan check?
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I think it is a good idea to require most, if not all prior to building review. I have tired to share that with every AHJ I have worked for or dealt with. There are lots of players, and getting them all to respond proves difficult, especially with some of the timelines imposed. Usually building divisions are the final say since they release permits, and some won't release a permit until the pre-determined list of reviews is satisficed, but they don't wait until that list is satisficed to start the review process. The potential result is inconsistent and sometimes competing reviews, released at different times, and often based on different plans (but I digress). This creates a bad situation for everyone. But some believe it is better customer service. In this case, it is entirely possible that there could be one set of plans on site that has a 3-co sink, and one that does not. Building inspectors will inspect off of one, health inspectors off of the other. If neither pays attention, both inspections pass. In a previous job I had the backing to require the STAMPED sanitation district plans if I felt it was needed. Apparently I wasn't customer service oriented.
 
Where I work I never herd of any communication between the health department and building codes. I don't even know if the health department does plan reviews. I have had revised plans with a new triple sink added at times.
 
Rick18071 said:
Where I work I never herd of any communication between the health department and building codes. I don't even know if the health department does plan reviews. I have had revised plans with a new triple sink added at times.
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We here in PennsylTucky are unlikely to have a health department plan review unless your in a larger or 1st class city
 
Here in San Diego, the Health Department will review the plans concurrently with the Building Department, but they will not sign off on their HD permit until Mechanical has been approved at the BD.
 
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