Electric baseboard and electric wall heaters in COMcheck

[Sifu]

Should electric baseboard and electric wall heaters be included in COMcheck mechanical compliance? I ran a test report and I don't see them included in the options. How are they treated when it comes to the IECC?

 

[steveray]

Electric resistance heat is 100% efficient.....100% expensive....But 100% efficient....Coming soon to be required in the 2024 IECC

 

[Sifu]

I could find nothing in the IECC now, which surprised me because of the 100% expensive thing. Then again, they seem to want all electric for everything now so I guess I'm not surprised.

 

[jar546]

I will tell you that electric baseboard heat is a terribly expensive way of heating a house. Everyone seems to agree on that.

 

[bill1952]

Around here, where electricity is lower cost than some places (~16¢/kWh), low cost builds use wood (plentiful here) as primary and electric baseboard as back-up. The low initial cost covers a lot. Not to mention NY State just outlawed gas in new construction.

 

[Sifu]

This is a commercial building with a lot of windows, under which they are installing electric baseboards. I was just wondering if they are regulated since they are not included in the COMcheck.

 

[steveray]

This is a commercial building with a lot of windows, under which they are installing electric baseboards. I was just wondering if they are regulated since they are not included in the COMcheck.

Again...they are 100% efficient so there is no need to create efficiency standards, so there are no standards to meet, so there is no need to put them in as a tradeoff in Comcheck....If that makes sense...If anything they would give you more credit from being so efficient....Just watch for receptacles above them...Manufacturers generally don't allow them...

 

[wwhitney]

Again...they are 100% efficient so there is no need to create efficiency standards

But heat pumps are generally more than 100% efficient by the usual metric (heat moved / electricity used), so that makes electric baseboard an inefficient choice.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[steveray]

Ohhhh...so they generate electricity because they are soooo efficient?....perfect....

 

[classicT]

Ohhhh...so they generate electricity because they are soooo efficient?....perfect....

Come on... be reasonable. I know you know better...

Look, I am no fan of the push towards electrification. I am quite fond of natural gas. But I also understand that a heat pump is more than 100% efficient - not because it generates electricity, but because it is a mechanism for transferring energy (heat). Energy, in the form of electricity or natural gas, is used to drive a vapor compression cycle that relies upon the exchange of heat between a exterior and interior environment. Thus, energy from the environment is captured or released, resulting in an efficiency great than 100%.

 

[steveray]

I get it...hence the wink....But that is some marketing BS right there.....If we could make more energy than we put in, the world would be a better place...

 

[wwhitney]

Ohhhh...so they generate electricity because they are soooo efficient?....perfect....

I guess I was mistaken in thinking that providing the definition of efficiency in question would forestall such comments . . .

Cheers, Wayne

 

[steveray]

I guess I was mistaken in thinking that providing the definition of efficiency in question would forestall such comments . . .

Cheers, Wayne

Good luck!....Shirley there is no stopping the sarcasm.....

 

[wwhitney]

I get it...hence the wink....But that is some marketing BS right there.....If we could make more energy than we put in, the world would be a better place...

Not at all marketing BS. It's a ratio of (thing you want / thing it costs you to provide). Since in this case the numerator and denominator are not both part of the same closed system, there's no physical restriction requiring the ratio to be less than 100%.

Same thing applies with natural gas--you can burn it directly, or you can use it to run an absorption heat pump. If you use an absorption heat pump, you can get a ratio of (heat delivered / combustion heat value of gas consumed) that is greater than 100%.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ICE]

But heat pumps are generally more than 100% efficient by the usual metric

By the unusual metric, a heat pump is infinitely efficient as people can't afford to operate them. And let's not forget that there's not enough electricity available to keep us all cool at the same time.