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Unlimited A3 Building

N

Nicole Brooks

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Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
112
Location
Baltimore
Hey all,

I am working on a 105,000 sf building of type IIB construction. The building had a change of occupancy/use about 6 years ago from Business / Storage 1 to A3 because a large gun range took over 65,000 sf. The previous architect classified it as A3 unlimited at that time. I'm looking over the code for A3 unlimited area buildings, but I don't see any mention of mixed use with A3. At the time the rest of the building remained S1/B. Is this combination of uses actually permitted in an unlimited area building? I'm working on an addition to the gun range of another 20K sf, which leaves roughly 20K sf left, which is currently vacant and I want to know if I need to alert the owner of any limits on uses for future tenants. Thanks for your input!
 
steveray said:
As long as you can meet the most restrictive of 507.4 and 507.6, I don't see why not.....All of those uses are allowed to be UL....
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I do not see how Section 507.4 would work since that section is limited to Groups A-1, A-2, and A-4.

Section 507.6 could possibly be used, but a gun range is not listed as one of the permitted uses (as a matter of fact, gun ranges are not listed anywhere in the IBC), but could be argued that its use is similar to some of the uses listed (i.e., it is an indoor sport such as swimming and tennis, which have low-density occupant loads and low fire loads).
 
I'm surprised that a gun (shooting) range would be classified as A-3. In a shooting range, probably 75% of the space is unoccupied "downrange" space -- no-man's land. I would be inclined to classify it as Business.

That said, you can classify an A-3 building as unlimited if it meets ALL of the criteria of IBC 507.6.

For height and area, the applicable criteria for non-separated mixed uses are those that apply to the most restrictive of the mixed uses. For separated mixed uses, you have to do some math -- see IBC 508.4. Business occupancies/buildings can be unlimited if the building satisfies 507.5. Storage buildings are in 507.4. In general, it appears that the building needs to be sprinklered, and all the uses/occupancies require a 60-foot yard or open way on all sides.

You also wrote that the plan is to "add" 20,000 square feet to the gun range. Then you say that will "leave" 20,000 square feet. That sounds like you're not going to be "adding" 20,000 square feet to the range, you're going to be expanding the range into another 20,000 square feet of existing space. That's not an "addition" -- that's a change of use. If the jurisdiction where the project is located has adopted the IEBC, that puts you into a different chapter of the IEBC.

Further, if the jurisdiction has adopted the IEBC, that's where you start looking -- not in the IBC. In an existing building under the IEBC, you don't look in the IBC unless the IEBC sends you there, and then you only look at the sections to which the IEBC refers you.

xx
 
RLGA said:
I do not see how Section 507.4 would work since that section is limited to Groups A-1, A-2, and A-4.

Section 507.6 could possibly be used, but a gun range is not listed as one of the permitted uses (as a matter of fact, gun ranges are not listed anywhere in the IBC), but could be argued that its use is similar to some of the uses listed (i.e., it is an indoor sport such as swimming and tennis, which have low-density occupant loads and low fire loads).
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Yours different than mine?

507.4​

The area of a Group A-4 building not more than one story above grade plane of other than Type V construction, or the area of a Group B, F, M or S building no more than one story above grade plane of any construction type, shall not be limited........
 
Yes, sorry, they are expanding into 20,000 sf,. Any yes, it is a change of occupancy. I started in IEBC, it took me back to IBC.
1726157002216.png
 
steveray said:
Yours different than mine?

507.4​

The area of a Group A-4 building not more than one story above grade plane of other than Type V construction, or the area of a Group B, F, M or S building no more than one story above grade plane of any construction type, shall not be limited
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And that's where it get's me. The code addresses mixed use unlimited area buildings for A-1, A-2, A-4, B, F, M, or S, or a combination, but not A-3.
 
Nicole Brooks said:
And that's where it get's me. The code addresses mixed use unlimited area buildings for A-1, A-2, A-4, B, F, M, or S, or a combination, but not A-3.
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No...it addresses all of those uses in different ways...But if you meet all of them, you are good...But I think I might agree that it is not an A3 anyway, but would need more info...

1726158988052.png
 
steveray said:
No...it addresses all of those uses in different ways...But if you meet all of them, you are good...But I think I might agree that it is not an A3 anyway, but would need more info...

View attachment 14281
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If you google "shooting range occupancy classification" there is an article somewhere comparing it to a bowling alley, and a bowling alley is an A3...so that's my guess how they came to that conclusion.
 
Nicole Brooks said:
If you google "shooting range occupancy classification" there is an article somewhere comparing it to a bowling alley, and a bowling alley is an A3...so that's my guess how they came to that conclusion.
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What's the occupant load?..its big so likely over 49......but its an argument...Could be a lot of dead space...

303.1.1​

A building or tenant space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons shall be classified as a Group B occupancy.
 
steveray said:
What's the occupant load?..its big so likely over 49......but its an argument...Could be a lot of dead space...

303.1.1​

A building or tenant space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons shall be classified as a Group B occupancy.
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yeah, way over 5.
 
steveray said:
Yours different than mine?

507.4​

The area of a Group A-4 building not more than one story above grade plane of other than Type V construction, or the area of a Group B, F, M or S building no more than one story above grade plane of any construction type, shall not be limited........
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No, it's not different. It says "Group B, F, M, or S"--nowhere does it state A-3. It only mentions mixed occupancies with Groups A-1 and A-2.
 
steveray said:
What's the occupant load?..its big so likely over 49......but its an argument...Could be a lot of dead space...

303.1.1​

A building or tenant space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons shall be classified as a Group B occupancy.
Click to expand...
For gun ranges, I only use the area occupied by the shooters to determine the occupant load. If the occupant load is greater than 49, I classify it as an assembly: "...for purposes such as civic, social or religious functions; recreation, food or drink consumption or awaiting transportation."

Unlike bowling alleys, indoor gun ranges have limited access to the firing area, so I use the unconcentrated assembly occupant load factor. I haven't had an issue yet.
 
RLGA said:
No, it's not different. It says "Group B, F, M, or S"--nowhere does it state A-3. It only mentions mixed occupancies with Groups A-1 and A-2.
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507.4 does not mention mixed at all, it mentions Type V A4 AND BFMS of any type.....507.6 mentions A3....Which is why I mentioned both in Post 2....
 
RLGA said:
See Section 507.4.1.
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Yes...but that is A1 and A2 with mixed...As much as that heading is written incorrectly IMO...

The concept would be that if all of the uses are allowed in unlimited, and all of the requirements are met, it's all allowed....IMO...Commentary says slightly different, and accessory is allowed...So for the OP, call the B and S1 accessory at 10K each and be done with it...the building is moving in the right direction....
 
Per Section 507.4, only Groups A-4, B, F, M, or S are permitted, except that Groups A-1 and A-2 can be included with those other occupancy groups under the conditions stipulated in Section 507.4.1. There is no mention of Group A-3 anywhere in Section 507.4.

Now, a code modification could be requested to use Section 507.4 since the Group A-4 occupancy includes indoor sporting activities with spectator seating. An indoor gun range is not much unlike the indoor sporting activities listed under Group A-4, except there are no spectators. From a means of egress perspective, an indoor gun range is less of a hazard than a sporting activity with spectator seating.
 
Nicole Brooks said:
yeah, way over 5.
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50
Nicole Brooks said:
yeah, way over 5.
Click to expand...
50
RLGA said:
Per Section 507.4, only Groups A-4, B, F, M, or S are permitted, except that Groups A-1 and A-2 can be included with those other occupancy groups under the conditions stipulated in Section 507.4.1. There is no mention of Group A-3 anywhere in Section 507.4.

Now, a code modification could be requested to use Section 507.4 since the Group A-4 occupancy includes indoor sporting activities with spectator seating. An indoor gun range is not much unlike the indoor sporting activities listed under Group A-4, except there are no spectators. From a means of egress perspective, an indoor gun range is less of a hazard than a sporting activity with spectator seating.
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I disagree with it being less of a hazard. I think anytime you introduce live ammunition to a situation, it constitutes a high hazard...maybe not a fire hazard, but I'm making sure I know exactly where my exits are anytime I go into a firing range.
 
Nicole Brooks said:
I disagree with it being less of a hazard. I think anytime you introduce live ammunition to a situation, it constitutes a high hazard...maybe not a fire hazard, but I'm making sure I know exactly where my exits are anytime I go into a firing range.
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As I stated, I was talking specifically about means of egress--spectator seating (usually bleachers or other fixed seating) is more difficult to egress in a panic situation than a single-level indoor gun range. However, indoor gun ranges have an excellent history of safety when properly supervised by experienced and trained range safety officers.
 
Let me stir the pot a bit

304.1 Business Group B.
Business Group B occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for office, professional or service-type transactions, including storage of records and accounts. Business occupancies shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Educational occupancies for students above the 12th grade.

Training and skill development not in a school or academic program (this shall include, but not be limited to, tutoring centers, martial arts studios, gymnastics and similar uses regardless of the ages served, and where not classified as a Group A occupancy).

That is precisely the reason why a majority of people use a gun range versus recreation.


Nicole Brooks said:
I think anytime you introduce live ammunition to a situation, it constitutes a high hazard
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However there are laws in place that when are followed significantly reduce accidents/hazards in that scenario.
  • Firearms Safety Act: All indoor firing ranges in Maryland must comply with the state’s Firearms Safety Act, which regulates the storage, handling, and use of firearms. Specifically, ranges must ensure that firearms are securely stored and unloaded when not in use, and that participants are properly trained and supervised.
  • Maryland Code, Public Safety Article, §5-101: This statute requires all shooting ranges, including indoor facilities, to be designed and constructed in accordance with National Rifle Association (NRA) range specifications. The Hap Baker Firearms Facility, mentioned in the search results, has been built to meet these standards.
  • Maryland Code, Public Safety Article, §5-108: This law mandates that all shooting ranges, including indoor facilities, must have a Range Safety Officer (RSO) present at all times to ensure compliance with safety protocols and regulations.
  • Maryland Code, Public Safety Article, §5-109: This statute requires all shooting ranges, including indoor facilities, to have a system in place for reporting and investigating accidents or incidents involving firearms.
  • Local Ordinances: Indoor firing ranges in Maryland may also be subject to local ordinances and zoning regulations, which can vary depending on the jurisdiction. For example, the Carroll County Government’s Hap Baker Firearms Facility is governed by county regulations and guidelines.
 
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