Accessible shower compartment - individual gang style

[Dinheru]

Working on a small office addition for a landscaping company. Staff does get dirty during work and showers daily. There will be a combination of gang toilet + gang showers.

Gang toilets share a main room, toilets would be technically "compartment" per ICC 604. resulting in 1 ADA stall, and 2 regulars. Stalls will receive enhanced privacy. With "only" 4 1/2" toe clearance. Current code is under 2009 ICC, but will designed it can accommodate the 2017 where 604.9.5 is 8" instead of 6"
These toilet stalls have door location and swing restrictions per 604.9.3.

From my understanding is that a shower compartment does not really read as a "compartment, but as a part of a room.
If I have a 30x60 roll-in with a 30x60 clear, the clear area becomes 60x60 and could technically contain a 60" turning radius
The 9" toe clearance for showers compartments doesnt appear to be a requirement correct?
Infact 2017 Icc still keeps the 30x60s unchanged. Which if I make a shower compartment (with similar hardware than a toilet partition) a 67" turning radius wont fit. I dont see the 67" being a requirement in the description, but then again ICC only treats showers as part of a room
These shower compartment doors would need to receive the same ADA approach as described in chapter 4, instead of the exceptions that are used for toilet partitions

I dont really have good drawings ready so I'm relying on harborcity.

ADA Design Solutions For Multiple Shower And Dressing Compartments

Athletic clubs, school gymnasiums and dormitories, parks and campgrounds, long term care facilities, and hospitals are a few examples where multiple ADA shower and dressing compartments are required.

www.harborcitysupply.com

I can see this combination being compliant, but I dont think I have the space for x 60x60 shower, considering privacy, the curtains are not an option
This configuration does show approx 18 inch clear at the ADA partition: https://www.harborcitysupply.com/content/TP-PDF/SD-BW4L-ADA60-D.pdf
But that would still require a 67" turning radius not?

Located in PA, so I dont want to rely on access-board interpretations unless I file an appeal with department of L&I. I can only rely on ICC a117.1

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

The link you provide is not to a gang shower, it's to a design for an array of individual shower stalls/compartments.

Are you doing a gang shower, or are you doing shower stalls?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

These are gang showers (male and female, each has two standard positions and one accessible shower with a transfer seat):

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

By the way, before you design a roll-in shower compartment -- are you aware that roll-in showers require special wheelchairs? You don't use a standard wheelchair in a shower.

Roll-in Shower FAQs

How much space is needed for a roll-in shower? What type of wheelchair can be used in a roll-in shower. Get answers for roll-in showers.

silvercross.com

Top 5 Shower Wheelchairs

www.rehabmart.com

Best Shower Wheelchairs In 2023 (Commode Chairs)

The best shower wheelchairs allow anyone a safer and more independent time while in the shower. We review the best shower chairs and aids.

mobilitymedicalsupply.com

Shower Chairs and Shower Wheelchairs for Independent Living

Our Shower Chairs and Shower Wheelchairs provide advanced mobility and independence for those with all types of needs and living situations.

www.nuprodx.com

Is the landscape company going to provide a shower wheelchair along with the roll-in shower?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I assume your references to "ICC" are to ICC/ANSI A117.1?

You really should be more specific in your references. It keeps everyone on the same page.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

From my understanding is that a shower compartment does not really read as a "compartment, but as a part of a room.

Incorrect.

If I have a 30x60 roll-in with a 30x60 clear, the clear area becomes 60x60 and could technically contain a 60" turning radius

A117.1 does not require a turning radius in a shower compartment.

The 9" toe clearance for showers compartments doesnt appear to be a requirement correct?

There is no toe clearance requirement for shower compartments in A117.1.

Infact 2017 Icc still keeps the 30x60s unchanged. Which if I make a shower compartment (with similar hardware than a toilet partition) a 67" turning radius wont fit. I dont see the 67" being a requirement in the description, but then again ICC only treats showers as part of a room

Incorrect. Nowhere does A117.1 treat shower compartments as part of a room. They are discussed as compartments, either transfer type or roll-in type.

These shower compartment doors would need to receive the same ADA approach as described in chapter 4, instead of the exceptions that are used for toilet partitions

What shower compartment doors?

I dont really have good drawings ready so I'm relying on harborcity.

ADA Design Solutions For Multiple Shower And Dressing Compartments

Athletic clubs, school gymnasiums and dormitories, parks and campgrounds, long term care facilities, and hospitals are a few examples where multiple ADA shower and dressing compartments are required.

www.harborcitysupply.com

Don't rely on vendors. They want to sell you their products.

 

[Dinheru]

Incorrect.



A117.1 does not require a turning radius in a shower compartment.



There is no toe clearance requirement for shower compartments in A117.1.



Incorrect. Nowhere does A117.1 treat shower compartments as part of a room. They are discussed as compartments, either transfer type or roll-in type.



What shower compartment doors?



Don't rely on vendors. They want to sell you their products.

For the reference I'm talking several stalls,

Compartment doesn't appear in the definitions.
Compartment definiation: a separate section of a structure or container in which certain items can be kept separate from others.
Which is either is open (as part of a bathroom for example, or it is a separate room. When a room, you will need the door approach / clearance and turning radius. The shower compartment does not describe this, but if it would be part of a room, you would have your turning radius (ICC A117.1

Inside the stall I would need my 30x60 shower , 30x60 clearance, I would still need a turning radius in my stall then?
What doors? The doors into my shower stall..

I sketched something up: I've got 2 regular stalls , and an ADA stall
I'm assuming I would need a turning radius here. 30x60 shower, 30x60 clear, 42" bench with clearance, 12" push and 18" pull clearance.

Regarding the different wheelchair:
It is irrelevant what wheelchair they would provide. code says you need an ADA shower, regardless of whether that person is in a wheelchair or not. At that point it becomes employers. Half the showers we put in are not even wanted but just a code requirement

Edit: it could be a transfer type, but would still need a turning radius
Edit 2: Sketch of gang style does show turning space.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

For the reference I'm talking several stalls,

Compartment doesn't appear in the definitions.
Compartment definiation: a separate section of a structure or container in which certain items can be kept separate from others.
Which is either is open (as part of a bathroom for example, or it is a separate room. When a room, you will need the door approach / clearance and turning radius. The shower compartment does not describe this, but if it would be part of a room, you would have your turning radius (ICC A117.1

Neither the IBC nor A117.1 includes a definition of "compartment." You are applying a definition from an outside, non-technical source to an item that is specifically regulated by A117.1. Under A117.1 Section 608, ALL discussions of shower "compartments:" refer simply to the recessed area within which a person takes a shower, without including any maneuvering or parking space or drying/dressing cubicles outside the immediate, wet shower area.

Inside the stall I would need my 30x60 shower , 30x60 clearance, I would still need a turning radius in my stall then?

No. See the text and illustrations in A117.1 and the ADAS.

What doors? The doors into my shower stall..

Why use doors? Why not use curtains?

I sketched something up: I've got 2 regular stalls , and an ADA stall
I'm assuming I would need a turning radius here. 30x60 shower, 30x60 clear, 42" bench with clearance, 12" push and 18" pull clearance.

Since you have combined the shower stall with the drying/dressing cubicle and you have a swinging door, then I agree you need a turning space. It could be a 'T' shaped turning space rather than a circle.

Regarding the different wheelchair:
It is irrelevant what wheelchair they would provide. code says you need an ADA shower, regardless of whether that person is in a wheelchair or not. At that point it becomes employers. Half the showers we put in are not even wanted but just a code requirement

Edit: it could be a transfer type, but would still need a turning radius

That's what puzzled me about your question. If all you need is an accessible shower and there's nothing that says it has to be a transfer shower, you can save a lot of space by just using a transfer shower.

Edit 2: Sketch of gang style does show turning space.

What sketch of gang style are you referring to?

 

[bill1952]

I assume your references to "ICC" are to ICC/ANSI A117.1?

You really should be more specific in your references. It keeps everyone on the same page.

Just btw, the title of the current edition is ICC A117.1. They have dropped "ANSI" from the title.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Just btw, the title of the current edition is ICC A117.1. They have dropped "ANSI" from the title.

They have dropped it from the title but A117.1-2017 is still jointly published by the ICC and ANSI. It's still an ANSI standard.

 

[bill1952]

ICC A117 1 is indeed an American National Standard but I don't believe ANSI publishes it any more than ANSI publishes NFPA codes and standards or any SDO's codes and standards. ANSI reviews the process to be sure it meets the ANSI essential requirements.

 

[Dinheru]

I thought they got rid of it. I used to call it ANSI but that wasnt correct either!

Curtains get dirty,
Now noticing The 2017 commentary actually shows a diagram with stall, transfertype with clearance, bench, bench clearance and a turning radius.
With curtains. Maybe i'll just use curtains to keep more space