Existing Building Fire Access

[brokenkeys]

I'm working with a condo that is doing concrete restoration and the Fire Department has asked that they now provide fire access around the building in compliance with NFPA 1, chapter 18. Not sure how concrete restoration involves them, but the big issue is that this building was built in the early 70's, and it doesn't come close to having a 20' wide x 13'-6" high clear drive around it. The Fire Marshal's suggested 'fix' would likely cost seven figures, and, in my professional opinion, would still not be compliant.

My question is how does fire access apply to existing building?

It's not as clear in NFPA 1 as it is in NFPA 101. It took a couple interactions with them to cite chapter 18. But I'm still not understanding how they have authority to apply that to existing buildings.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I'm working with a condo that is doing concrete restoration and the Fire Department has asked that they now provide fire access around the building in compliance with NFPA 1, chapter 18. Not sure how concrete restoration involves them, but the big issue is that this building was built in the early 70's, and it doesn't come close to having a 20' wide x 13'-6" high clear drive around it. The Fire Marshal's suggested 'fix' would likely cost seven figures, and, in my professional opinion, would still not be compliant.

My question is how does fire access apply to existing building?

It doesn't.

It's not as clear in NFPA 1 as it is in NFPA 101. It took a couple interactions with them to cite chapter 18. But I'm still not understanding how they have authority to apply that to existing buildings.

What section of what code is the Fire marshal citing? Are you saying he's using chapter 18 of NFPA 101? Chapter 18 is New Health care Occupancies.

 

[brokenkeys]

It doesn't.

That's my thought too

What section of what code is the Fire marshal citing? Are you saying he's using chapter 18 of NFPA 101? Chapter 18 is New Health care Occupancies.

Chapter 18 of NFPA 1 - Florida Edition

I haven't argued code with them yet, as it took two requests just for them to provide any code citation, so now I'm finally able to dig into this.

One Florida specific code I see being problematic is 18.2.3.2.1.2. Below. Even if I can argue that fire access isn't required around the entire building, this sounds vague enough for them to say it's at least required to the front doors.

Either way, the problem is that this is an existing building. Providing fire access to the front doors (there are multiple front doors as the units are divided up into pods on each floor, and each pod has its own entrance) would require major modifications.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Okay, but what about scoping? Where does NFPA 1 say Chapter 18 applies retroactively to existing buildings?

 

[steveray]

The Fire Marshal's suggested 'fix' would likely cost seven figures,

If it's just a suggestion then tell him to pound sand until it is suitable base for driving apparatus on...

 

[brokenkeys]

Okay, but what about scoping? Where does NFPA 1 say Chapter 18 applies retroactively to existing buildings?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I don't open NFPA 1 often, but I foresee a long weekend on the patio with a cigar, a cooler full of icy beverages and NFPA on the tablet... a weekend my kids would be proud of lol