How does the NEC treat existing equipment? "Grandfathered"?

[Yikes]

In 2004 an existing hotel was renovated into an apartment complex, and heat lamps were installed in the bathrooms. The 2004 city-stamped architectural plans called for heat lamps, but I don't have copies of any electrical plans from that era that provide more specifics.

We are currently renovating some bathrooms for ADA compliance, all under permit, and we were going to leave the heat lamps.

The inspector issued a corrections under NEC 110.2 saying the heat lamps need to be approved, listed and labeled.

Is there anything in the NEC that is similar to IBC 102.6, where if it was legally permitted before, we don't need to get it approved according to current code requirements?

 

[ICE]

I might be wrong, but twenty-one year old heat lamps might be something many electrical contractors would not be pleased to energize. They could be fine as the day they were born.... and then again perhaps not. I for one, would say no....but then I'm not an electrical contractor, so I don't count. Once they are removed, they will be illegal to replace.

 

[steveray]

In 2004 an existing hotel was renovated into an apartment complex, and heat lamps were installed in the bathrooms. The 2004 city-stamped architectural plans called for heat lamps, but I don't have copies of any electrical plans from that era that provide more specifics.

We are currently renovating some bathrooms for ADA compliance, all under permit, and we were going to leave the heat lamps.
View attachment 15926
The inspector issued a corrections under NEC 110.2 saying the heat lamps need to be approved, listed and labeled.

Is there anything in the NEC that is similar to IBC 102.6, where if it was legally permitted before, we don't need to get it approved according to current code requirements?

Technically you have to go through the building code to get to the NEC....So unless he is issuing an unsafe order or work without permit notice...Tell him to revoke the CO or piss off...

Under 110.2 it was "approved" when it was installed last time, with a permit, and inspection, and CO, if he wants to play the "listing" game that is 110.3 I believe..

Then tell him that the NEC has no "retro" capability as it only applies to "active" work...That always fires up the sparkies....

 

[steveray]

And I hope that is all "dry vent" plumbing or the plumbing inspector is going to make you rip that out too..

 

[ICE]

Tell him to revoke the CO or piss off.

I doubt that 'piss off' is in Yikes's vocabulary.

the plumbing inspector is going to make you rip that out too

Might he also be the electrical inspector?

Those heat lamps survived 21 years in a bathroom environment and you are expecting to get another 21 years of trouble free duty.

 

[steveray]

Those heat lamps survived 21 years in a bathroom environment and you are expecting to get another 21 years of trouble free duty.

Without paying for the pesky listing, maybe they had more money to spend on making a good product….

 

[ICE]

Without paying for the pesky listing, maybe they had more money to spend on making a good product….

Twenty-one years ago a Listing was a testament to a good product. After the NRTLs became for profit corporations, I lost unbridled confidence in a Listing.

 

[BN4537]

(Don't know what California does, this is what our code says)​

2024 IEBC 302.3 ​

Materials already in use in a building in compliance with requirements or approvals in effect at the time of their erection or installation shall be permitted to remain in use unless determined by the code official to be unsafe.

UNSAFE.

Buildings, structures or equipment that are unsanitary, or that are deficient due to inadequate means of egress facilities, inadequate light and ventilation, or that constitute a fire hazard, or in which the structure or individual structural members meet the definition of “Dangerous,” or that are otherwise dangerous to human life or the public welfare, or that involve illegal or improper occupancy or inadequate maintenance shall be deemed unsafe. A vacant structure that is not secured against entry shall be deemed unsafe.

"Unsafe" is the nuclear option. Unless you have scorch marks or melted wires at or around these lamps, I don't think you are to that point yet. A question about the listing of a product does not constitute an "unsafe condition". Otherwise, they are allowed to remain as-is. There is nothing in the NEC that would address the inspector's concerns.

 

[Yikes]

I doubt that 'piss off' is in Yikes's vocabulary.

I am a choir boy.

Might he also be the electrical inspector?

Those heat lamps survived 21 years in a bathroom environment and you are expecting to get another 21 years of trouble free duty.


View attachment 15929

The apartments are low income senior housing. The residents don’t have many luxuries in their dotage, so imagine when we tell them we’re “improving” their bathroom and we’ve removed their heat lamp that took the chill off their morning constitutional.
Maybe I should let the inspector explain it to the seniors.

 

[ICE]

their heat lamp that took the chill off

I have experienced heat lamps. As I recall, they are just shy of worthless.

 

[mark handler]

NEC Sec. 83-5. Existing Installations. No provision of this Code shall be deemed to require a change in any portion of electrical systems or any other work regulated by this Code in or on an existing building or lot when such work was installed and is maintained in accordance with law in effect prior to the effective date of this Code, except when any such electrical systems or other work regulated by this Code is determined by the Chief Electrical Inspector to be in fact dangerous, unsafe, or a nuisance, and a menace to life, health or property.

 

[steveray]

NEC Sec. 83-5. Existing Installations. No provision of this Code shall be deemed to require a change in any portion of electrical systems or any other work regulated by this Code in or on an existing building or lot when such work was installed and is maintained in accordance with law in effect prior to the effective date of this Code, except when any such electrical systems or other work regulated by this Code is determined by the Chief Electrical Inspector to be in fact dangerous, unsafe, or a nuisance, and a menace to life, health or property.

I think that is in an appendix or whatever NFPA calls it...But Yeah....

 

[Yikes]

Found something similar in city of LA - in their municipal code, but couldn't find it on UpCodes:
SEC. 93.0109. EXISTING CONSTRUCTION.
(Amended by Ord. No. 185,587, Eff. 7/16/18.)
Except as specified in LAMC Section 93.0111 and LAMC Section 93.0311(f), nothing contained in this Code shall be construed to curtail the uses of, nor to require any person to reinstall, reconstruct, alter, change or remove any electric wiring or equipment which had complied with the laws and regulations in effect at the time of installation.

Thanks to all of you for your help.