Q. Do you enforce this?

[SCBO1]

Do you permit the contractors to staple Romex to the bottom of the floor joist without any protection?
Do you require a GFCI receptacle with-in 25ft of the A/C unit?
Do you allow Romex to be ran through studs in a basement with no drywall coverage or conduit protection?
Do you allow an electric water heater disconnect be omitted if you can see the electric panel through framed wall studs?
Do you require the sparky to mark the ground locations in the main panel?

Curious if the battle is worth it?

 

[Wstubbs]

No
yes
yes, as long as it's 1 1/4 back. I understand going through floors require protection but was not aware of this.
yes
no.

Thanks, I had to look up some of these requirements and the reasons behind them. Luckily, I've got great electricians in my area. The marking of ground location... was not aware of.. as all that I have inspected are marked emergency disconnect on the exterior.

 

[steveray]

Larger yes, smaller, no
New, yes, replacement no
yes
probably
Mark the ground locations?

 

[BN4537]

(1) for exposed work that is not "subject to physical damage", yes, anything else, no. I'm pretty lenient on "subject to physical damage".
(2) yes
(3) yes
(4) no
Mark the ground locations?

 

[ICE]

We don't have basements.

Do you permit the contractors to staple Romex to the bottom of the floor joist without any protection?

Not in a basement that we do not have.

Do you require a GFCI receptacle with-in 25ft of the A/C unit?

Not if it is a ground mount. RTU yes.

Do you allow Romex to be ran through studs in a basement with no drywall coverage or conduit protection?

Almost never see NMC run in conduit. If I can see NMC I must be in an attic at least six feet from the scuttle.

Do you allow an electric water heater disconnect be omitted if you can see the electric panel through framed wall studs?

If we did have basements, that would be no.

Do you require the sparky to mark the ground locations in the main panel?

Not yet.

 

[e hilton]

if you can see the electric panel through framed wall studs?

What happens if sombody puts sheetrock on the studs in the future, blocking the view?

 

[Wstubbs]

the plumber finds the panel and turns off the breaker marked hot water

 

[Wstubbs]

I understand the disconnecting means must be within sight.. but what is the probability having the only disconnect at the panel will cause harm? Do they make breaker lock keys? wouldn't that fit code if the breaker could be locked?

 

[BN4537]

I understand the disconnecting means must be within sight.. but what is the probability having the only disconnect at the panel will cause harm? Do they make breaker lock keys? wouldn't that fit code if the breaker could be locked?

The probability is that the plumber turns off the breaker to work on the equipment, and someone turns it back on without him knowing, and he gets shocked. The only ways to keep people from turning breakers on is either to lock them or directly supervise them - red tape and warning notes do not work.

I would hazard a guess that many of us have been shocked or welded some pliers when someone turned a breaker back on that was supposed to be turned off.

They do make breaker lock clips that fit behind the dead front, I will see if I can find a link. When I offer that as an option, no one has ever gone that route, they always install a disconnect.

 

[BN4537]

I would accept one of these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-CH-Circuit-Breaker-Padlocking-Device-CHPLCS/202959540

I would not accept either of these. I do not believe that they meet 110.25 : https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...amp-for-Single-Pole-Breaker-QO1LOCP/202495821, https://www.homedepot.com/p/VEVOR-L...p-Tags-Ties-Box-AQSJTZJDGJX42WVJ4V0/328871817

 

[steveray]

What happens if sombody puts sheetrock on the studs in the future, blocking the view?

What happens when someone energizes all of the plumbing in the house?

 

[SCBO1]

What happens if sombody puts sheetrock on the studs in the future, blocking the view?

This is the issue and will happen when the contractor states that the new buyer can finish the basement/rec-room off. the WH will be out of view.

They do make breaker lock clips that fit behind the dead front,

Breaker lock-out clip can be required.

Mark the ground locations?

Mark the ground locations?

When the ceiling of a garage is covered by drywall, the Mr. UFER ground is concealed, should you know where the GEC terminates? I'm thinking you 'all don't require that the ground locations be noted in the panel due to no clear code language stating it's required.

 

[wwhitney]

This is the issue and will happen when the contractor states that the new buyer can finish the basement/rec-room off. the WH will be out of view.

So that person installing drywall is required to install a permanent breaker lock-out clip at the panel. Just leave a note stapled to the studs along the line of sight from the water heater to the panel stating so. : - )

Still curious what you mean by "mark the ground locations in the main panel".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[steveray]

This is the issue and will happen when the contractor states that the new buyer can finish the basement/rec-room off. the WH will be out of view.

Drywall requires a permit and that is when it needs to be caught....

 

[SCBO1]

Still curious what you mean by "mark the ground locations in the main panel".

Here, they place a piece of rebar inside the foundation wall from the footing to the top of the wall and attach a grounding wire. If the connection is on the garage side it will be covered by 5/8-inch Type-X drywall never to be seen again. If on the rec-room side the same thing can happen if covered by drywall.

Noting the location in the panel helps to verify the location of the grounding electrode. Outside the grounding electrode should be below grade and usually covered by earth, but where is it? Numerous times when doing inspections we inspectors need to verify the grounding sources. In the old days we had a waterpipe ground and the grounding connection had to be before the first fitting at the main water line entrance of the home, as far as I know that still has to be accessible. A grounding connection in a garage ceiling is very seldom accessible due to breaching the fire separation requirement.

 

[Joe.B]

Here, they place a piece of rebar inside the foundation wall from the footing to the top of the wall and attach a grounding wire. If the connection is on the garage side it will be covered by 5/8-inch Type-X drywall never to be seen again. If on the rec-room side the same thing can happen if covered by drywall.

Noting the location in the panel helps to verify the location of the grounding electrode. Outside the grounding electrode should be below grade and usually covered by earth, but where is it? Numerous times when doing inspections we inspectors need to verify the grounding sources. In the old days we had a waterpipe ground and the grounding connection had to be before the first fitting at the main water line entrance of the home, as far as I know that still has to be accessible. A grounding connection in a garage ceiling is very seldom accessible due to breaching the fire separation requirement.

How do they make a non-reversible connection to the rebar? Usually, I just see an acorn nut. That is required to be accessible.

 

[steveray]

Noting the location in the panel helps to verify the location of the grounding electrode.

Why do you need to know where the GE is?

 

[Joe.B]

 

[wwhitney]

Here, they place a piece of rebar inside the foundation wall from the footing to the top of the wall and attach a grounding wire. If the connection is on the garage side it will be covered by 5/8-inch Type-X drywall never to be seen again. If on the rec-room side the same thing can happen if covered by drywall.

That connection is required to be accessible per NEC 250.68(A). So if it covered with drywall, an access panel should be provided at that time.

Outside the grounding electrode should be below grade and usually covered by earth, but where is it?

For ground rods, you just have to follow the GEC/bonding jumper and move some earth as required (unless you have a 10' rod which is allowed to have up to 2' above grade).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

How do they make a non-reversible connection to the rebar? Usually, I just see an acorn nut. That is required to be accessible.

It's not required to be non-reversible, the rebar is part of the grounding electrode, not part of the GEC. Just like the connection to a ground rod is not required to be non-reversible.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Joe.B]

It's not required to be non-reversible, the rebar is part of the grounding electrode, not part of the GEC. Just like the connection to a ground rod is not required to be non-reversible.

Cheers, Wayne

If it's a reversible connection, I thought it's required to be accessible. You would allow the picture I showed to be buried behind the drywall never to be seen again?

 

[Joe.B]

250.68
(A) Accessibility. All mechanical elements used to terminate
a grounding electrode conductor or bonding jumper to a
grounding electrode shall be accessible.

 

[wwhitney]

If it's a reversible connection, I thought it's required to be accessible

The contrapositive of that is if the GEC to electrode connection is inaccessible, it's required to be non-reversible. Which is what 250.68(A) Exception 2 states, which I had not been aware of. Thanks for the pointer.

But yes, a not accessible, not buried, and reversible connection between the GEC and electrode is not allowed.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[BN4537]

How do they make a non-reversible connection to the rebar? Usually, I just see an acorn nut. That is required to be accessible.

I have seen crimp connections to the rebar, and the other day I found an exothermic weld. The electrician said the shot was only around $15.