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section 1028 Exit discharge

T

Tim Mailloux

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Hartford CT
I routinely see high and mid rise construction with (2) interior exit stair towers, and both of these interior exit stairs discharge into a central core and then to the exterior of the building through a rated corridor or a lobby. These building do not have any of the interior exit stairs discharging directly to the exterior and I am trying to figure out how this is achieved with in the frame work of the code. Section 1028 exit discharge is very clear that exits shall discharge directly to the exterior of the building unless you meet one of the 3 listed exceptions, and that the combined use of exceptions #1 & #2 cannot be used for more than 50% of the exits. Exception #3 is with regards to horizontal exits which is not in play here.


Using either exception #1 or #2 I see how it would be possible for one stair to discharge directly to the exterior and the other stair discharge through the lobby or a rated corridor, but not both. Do these high and mid-rise building being type IA construction make this stair configuration possible?
 
Agree one can,,, as long as you meet all requirements

Especially 1.1

To me you come out of the stairs and the exterior door is right there or across the corridor.

No right or left turns and walk a way's.
 
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Can you call the stair enclosure wall a HE? Per Ex 3? I think its cheating, but I didn't write it....

I assume you can't meet this:

Horizontal exits constructed as fire barriers shall be continuous from exterior wall to exterior wall so as to divide completely the floor served by the horizontal exit.
 
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The "rated corridor" needs to be constructed as an Exit Passageway. At first glance it looks like a rated corridor, but it needs to be the same rating as the exit stair, have no other uses than egress & circulation, and has restrictions on what can be in it and open into it.
 
steveray said:
Can you call the stair enclosure wall a HE? Per Ex 3? I think its cheating, but I didn't write it....

I assume you can't meet this:

Horizontal exits constructed as fire barriers shall be continuous from exterior wall to exterior wall so as to divide completely the floor served by the horizontal exit.
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I also think that is cheating, and I dont think we could even achieve that the begin with
 
Paul Sweet said:
The "rated corridor" needs to be constructed as an Exit Passageway. At first glance it looks like a rated corridor, but it needs to be the same rating as the exit stair, have no other uses than egress & circulation, and has restrictions on what can be in it and open into it.
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but the exit passageay would only be allowed for 50% of the two interior exit stairs, not both. One has to discharge directly to the exterior of the building.
 
steveray said:
One could reenter and one could be an EP.....
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the exit passage way is one of the options listed in the 1028 exceptions....then there is this......"the combined use of exceptions #1 and #2 can only be used for 50% of the number or capacity of exits....." or something like that.
 
Tim and Paul are correct. An Exit Passageway is an "extension" of the stair enclosure and must have the same degree of fire resistance (walls, floor and ceiling) as the stair enclosure. An Exit Passageway is considered an Exit and not an Exit Access (like a corridor) therefore providing a path within an Exit to an Exit Discharge.

Ken
 
If one of the two stairways discharges into the lobby, then the 50% maximum is met. The other stairway must be extended to the exterior using an exit passageway having a rating equal to or greater than that of the stairway enclosure. There is no limitation on how many stairways can be linked to an exit discharge using an exit passageway--an exit is an exit.
 
Ex 2 is vestibules and Ex 1 is "limited protected" re-entry... Neither address EP because the exit protection is maintained so it does not need to have an exception. Which still may not solve your customer issue as it seems they want 2 open exits....
 
The highlighted text below from 1028.1 exception 1.3 sounds like an exit passageway to me. So if I use an exit passageway for one of the two stairs the 2nd stair would have to discharge directly to the exterior of the building do to the 50% rule.

1028.1 Exception 1.3
The egress path from the interior exit stair-way and ramp on the level of exit discharge is protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system. Portions of the level of exit discharge with access to the egress path shall be either equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2, or separated from the egress path in accordance with the requirements for the enclosure of interior exit stairways or ramps.
 
I agree....but it does not say "exit passageway".....It also says:

" protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system."

and then sprinklered or separated by the enclosure....So it is a little confusing....
 
Are you sure there aren't doors directly to the exterior from one of the stair towers? It's fairly common for a stair tower to have a direct exit out the back of the building and also to have a door into the lobby for day to day use. In these cases I've sometimes seen the door to the lobby swing the "wrong" way (out from the stair) which can give the impression that it's an exit from the stairs.

Not saying you missed anything, but I really don't think you can have both stair exits pass through other spaces so I don't know how it would meet the code otherwise.
 
I see with with podium construction. As an example parking garage under apartments. Apartments have the 2 remote MOE's but when they get into the garage area (separate building) they discharge into a common lobby. This was discussed with ICC and is a hole in the building code.
 
Tim Mailloux said:
The highlighted text below from 1028.1 exception 1.3 sounds like an exit passageway to me. So if I use an exit passageway for one of the two stairs the 2nd stair would have to discharge directly to the exterior of the building do to the 50% rule.

1028.1 Exception 1.3
The egress path from the interior exit stair-way and ramp on the level of exit discharge is protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system. Portions of the level of exit discharge with access to the egress path shall be either equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2, or separated from the egress path in accordance with the requirements for the enclosure of interior exit stairways or ramps.
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The third condition for Exception 1 (1.3) just means that if you don’t sprinkler the entire level of exit discharge, then other nonsprinklered spaces with access to the egress path area used by the stairway must be separated from the egress path area with fire-resistive assemblies equal to that for the stairway enclosure. The egress path area must still be sprinklered. It’s kind of like an exit passageway, but falls short of being a fully-compliant exit passageway.
 
Exception 1.3 allows you to exit through a lobby that exceeds the 10 ft. allowed by exception 2, as long as the lobby is sprinklered and separated by walls of the same rating as the stair. The lobby can also be used for purposes other than egress and circulation, such as a reception area.

Exception 1.3 is less restrictive than an exit passageway, which is why it's limited to 50% of the exits.
 
Resurrecting this old post. Here's an AI answer when I asked for a comparison between Exit Passageways and Exit Discharge Lobbies (EDL).

Exit passageways
  • Definition: An exit passageway is a horizontal extension of an exit enclosure (like a stairwell) that leads to the exit discharge. It provides a protected path of travel from an interior exit to the exterior of the building or a public way.
  • Purpose: To extend the protected path of an exit, typically when a stairway cannot discharge directly to the outside or when the path to the exterior is lengthy.
  • Construction:
    • Fire-resistance Rating: Must have a fire-resistance rating not less than that required for the interior exit stairway or ramp it serves, with a minimum of 1-hour.
    • Separation: Must be separated from other building areas by fire barriers or horizontal assemblies consistent with their fire-resistance rating.
    • Penetrations: Limited to equipment and ductwork directly serving the exit passageway.
    • Ventilation: Must have independent ventilation systems.
    • Use: Cannot be used for any purpose other than egress and circulation.

Exit discharge lobbies
  • Definition: A lobby or vestibule on the level of exit discharge that can receive occupants from exit stairways or ramps and provides access to the building's exterior.
  • Purpose: To provide a transition space for occupants leaving the building from a protected exit path to the outside or a public way.
  • Construction:
    • Fire-resistance Rating: The separation of the lobby from other areas on the same level should be consistent with the fire-resistance rating of the connecting stair enclosure, or the entire level should be sprinklered. Walls of egress courts (which are part of the exit discharge) may need 1-hour fire-resistance-rated construction for a portion of their length, especially if they are less than 10 feet wide.
    • Sprinkler System: The egress path within the lobby must be protected by an approved automatic sprinkler system or be separated from other areas by fire barriers equivalent to the exit enclosure rating.
    • Door: A fire door is required at the point where an exit stairway discharges into the lobby, according to ICC Digital Codes.
    • Limitations: Generally, not more than 50% of the required exit stairways/ramps can discharge through interior areas like lobbies or vestibules.

Key distinctions
  • Function: Exit passageways are primarily for extending the protected exit path, while exit discharge lobbies are for facilitating the final exit from the building.
  • Location: Exit passageways can occur at any level where an exit needs to be extended, whereas exit discharge lobbies are specifically located at the level of discharge to the building exterior.
  • Use: Exit passageways are strictly limited to egress and circulation, whereas exit discharge lobbies can be used for purposes like furniture or decoration, provided fire safety requirements are met.
In essence, exit passageways are focused on maintaining the fire-resistance integrity of the exit path over a distance, while exit discharge lobbies address the fire safety considerations at the point where the exit terminates and the building exits.

I'm trying to understand the differences:


EDL
1. It doesn't sound like EDL's require the floor/ceiling above to be rated
2. Can contain furniture
3. Isn't required to be separated from the remainder of the floor if the whole floor is rated
4. Can have ductwork penetrations
5. Can only be located at the exit discharge level.

Exit Passageway.
1. Can connect two exits
 
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