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  1. R

    Modification to Municipal Code

    Thanks for the info. I was hoping there was a simple/quick way to get the issue fixed. With building code modifications, like openings too close to a property line, I can submit a mod request to building or fire (whoever is repsonsible) and propose an alternate such as a water curtain/window...
  2. R

    Modification to Municipal Code

    Is it possible to get a modification for a section of a city's municipal code? I am familiar with modifications to the building code and fire code, but what about subjects that are outside of those that are just part of the city's municipal code? Here is the situation: I am working on a...
  3. R

    sprinkler riser question

    I think I misunderstood your earlier description of the system. I agree that having a valve shut off the entire building (over 52000) is not legal per NFPA. Though, realistically it is legal to have a PIV or OS&Y on the backflow that would accomplish the same thing, so I don't see a whole lot...
  4. R

    sprinkler riser question

    That would be my opinion. The system size limitation exists for 2 reasons: to limit the size of systems, and to limit the area left unprotected if the system is out of service. You have achieved the second goal, at least as much as practical, by dividing the building up with 3 systems. A...
  5. R

    sprinkler riser question

    It's all about what is downstream of the control valve. As soon as you have a control valve (and flow switch), you have a system riser. The system downstream of that can protect no more than 52000. If you take a bulk line off the floor control pipe, before the control valve (so before it is...
  6. R

    sprinkler riser question

    Correct. But a vertical pipe isn't the only piece that defines a system riser, either. I would say that in the case described by CDA, the bulk main running through the building to the separate floor controls meets the letter of the NFPA 13 requirements, though maybe not the intent as described...
  7. R

    sprinkler riser question

    Coug Dad, I haven't seen anything like that in the handbook. Do you know the rough time frame of that ruling? Was it formal, or informal? I can probably track it down if it was formal. It would be interesting to see the thought process on that decision. The 2007 handbook had a supplement...
  8. R

    sprinkler riser question

    What's the difference between a bulk main with independant floor/zone controls for each system vs. a manifold arrangement as shown in exhibit 8.1 of the sprinkler handbook? I don't know the specifics of the project, but in a typical building you would have one underground water supply, and one...
  9. R

    Sprinkler obstruction

    Assuming standard spray sprinklers, NFPA has 3 general rules to deal with obstructions: - for solid, continuous obstructions (typically called the beam rule) section 8.6.5.1. In my opinion, it doesn't apply very well to this situation. - for non-solid, or non-continuous...
  10. R

    Wet changed to anti freeze system

    If you are using the 2007 or 2010 editions of NFPA 13, you might want to check out section 22.4.4.5.1, and its commentary if you have the handbook. The calculations for a wet system would have used the Hazen-Williams folmula, but antifreeze system over 40 gallons require a more complex formula...
  11. R

    FYI: Fire sprinklers vs rated enclosure.

    I'm with permitguy. I thought the exception was for "telecommunications buildings", not just for electrical or telecommunications spaces in other buildings. The commentary is a little confusing. There are numerous "exceptions" within NFPA 13 that allow for sprinklers to be ommitted from...
  12. R

    13R or 13D

    13R provides references to NFPA 13 for areas that are beyond it's scope, while 13D does not contain any such reference, other than to say that 13 or 13R should be used for the residential portions of all other buildings. So I would say that 13R is much more applicable to mixed occupancy...
  13. R

    Painted CPVC Fire Pipe

    Where does that hole in the wall go? It looks like they used to have a pipe go through the wall. Was that a pipe to a sidewall sprinkler covering the exterior balcony? Is there another sprinkler covering the balcony now?
  14. R

    Something for Fun

    Granted. But since nothing is certain but death and taxes, all you are left with is death. My condolences to your family. I wish I had a way to fix stupid.
  15. R

    bucket test for 13 system?

    In most areas I would say that it is unnecessary and cost prohibitive. I think it depends on the reason for the pressure fluctuation. Was there a sudden increase in demand from a large fire, or was there a main break a few blocks away? Is the pressure subject to fluctuation with resevoir...
  16. R

    bucket test for 13 system?

    Tim - What is a reasonable time from flow test to final inspections? 6 months? 12 months? If they finished construction in 3 months, and the installation matches the plans and calcs, do you accept it as is? What kind of confidence do you have in the water supply?
  17. R

    bucket test for 13 system?

    I can't imagine a scenario where it would be more difficult to run a new flow test than to run a bucket test on 12 heads. How big are your buckets? Is there some obstacle to running a new flow test? Or are you just exploring the options? Is there reason to suspect that the original flow test...
  18. R

    Manual Standpipe in a High Rise building

    The priming line is a small line, typically 1", that connects the sprinkler system to the standpipe system. It has a shutoff valve, check valve, and flow switch, to detect if a hose valve is opened. The standpipe system is thereby pressurized to the same system pressure as the sprinklers, but...
  19. R

    Manual Standpipe in a High Rise building

    Thanks for the responses. The system will be manual-wet, and they actually require separate standpipe and sprinkler systems, with a "priming" line, to keep the standpipe wet and notify if a valve is open (without tampering every hose valve). I have the requirement in writing, though I am...
  20. R

    Manual Standpipe in a High Rise building

    Despite the requirements of NFPA and the building and fire codes, one of the jurisdictions I work in informed me that they want a manual standpipe system in a new high rise building. From the perspective of my company, this isn't such a bad thing. The system will certainly be less expensive...
  21. R

    Fire Walls vs. Horizontal Exits

    The fire department will definately be brought in on this issue. Fortunately, this particular city is very easy to work with and I have a good relationship with the fire marshal. This post was more for my own knowledge. I have always seen fire walls in buildings (though they were previously...
  22. R

    Fire Walls vs. Horizontal Exits

    I haven't used attachments before, so I hope this comes through for you guys. This a pretty big building, so there are quite a few fire walls. The ones that concern me the most are the one between units 275/276 and the one betweens units 278/280. These are only 75 ft apart. The architect's...
  23. R

    Fire Walls vs. Horizontal Exits

    I'm a sprinkler guy, and I design systems for a lot of large apartment buildings. It seems to be pretty common practice to divide the structure up into several "buildings" using fire walls. It has always been my understanding that these fire walls, while creating separate buildings for the...
  24. R

    Barbecues on open-to-sky balconies

    Good point. In an apartment building, the tenant in the lower floor gets a barbecue (because he has a sprinkler on his patio), but the tenant upstairs is not allowed because there is no sprinkler (due to lack of roof structure). Unfortunate for the guy upstairs, I guess. I'm a sprinkler guy...
  25. R

    Barbecues on open-to-sky balconies

    IFC section 308.3.1 states: Charcoal burners and other open-flame cooking devices shall not be operated on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048 mm) of combustible construction. One of the exceptions is when the building, balconies and decks are protected with a fire sprinkler system...
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