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1 accessible lav to serve both sexes?

H

Henchalwoog

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
55
Given mens and womens toilet rooms with accessible stalls - lav(s) are located outside of the room in a common area - for toilet stalls the IBC states that 5% but not less than one accessible stall be provided so that is a given - 2 accessible stalls...however when it comes to lavs it states the same thing however there is no required (by modesty standards if nothing else) that they be separate...a designer is arguing that if 1 accessible lav is provided outside the toilet rooms then it is compliant...I say that each sex cannot "wait in line" to use the accessible lav...thoughts?
 
mark handler said:
Do the Non-accessible restrooms have separate lavs?
Click to expand...
Yes - the whole issue stems from the approved plans indicating all wall hung lavs as accessible...during the construction the owner and the contractor decided to switch out the wall hungs for vanities with no knee clearance and too high of rims...now they want to provide an additional single accessible wall hung lav to serve both toilet rooms
 
steveray said:

405.3.2 Public lavs​

In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet.
Click to expand...
Yes - and it would be a la bradley lavs in a school setting - the only issue being that it is only 1 accessible lav for both sexes.
 
Henchalwoog said:
Yes - the whole issue stems from the approved plans indicating all wall hung lavs as accessible...during the construction the owner and the contractor decided to switch out the wall hungs for vanities with no knee clearance and too high of rims...now they want to provide an additional single accessible wall hung lav to serve both toilet rooms
Click to expand...
Story of my life right there...

Only looking at my state's code since idk where this is:
ADAS / 2025 CBC 11B-213.3.4 Lavatories
Where lavatories are provided, at least 10 percent but no fewer than one shall comply with Section 11B-606 and shall not be located in a toilet or urinal compartment.

Since all lavs are located in a shared space (not within each toilet room), then all the lavs in that space are used to calculate the number of required accessible fixtures.

If they have 10 lavs or less, even if they're being used by everyone, only one needs to be accessible per this code. I don't believe there's a specific requirement that each sex has its own accessible lav. At least, not in the codes I use...
 
Virginia made several amendments to the 2021 IPC to allow lavatories outside the room with the water closet and to allow multiuser gender-neutral toilet facilities:

405.3.2​

In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet.

Exception: In educational use occupancies, the required lavatory shall be permitted to be located adjacent to the room or space containing the water closet, provided that not more than one operational door is between the water closet and the lavatory.

405.3.3​

Piping, fixtures or equipment shall not be located in such a manner as to interfere with the normal operation of windows, doors or other means of egress openings.

405.3.4​

Each water closet utilized by the public or employees shall comply with Sections 405.3.4.1 and 405.3.4.2, as applicable. All fully enclosed compartments shall be provided with occupancy indicators.

Exceptions:
  1. 1.Water closet compartments shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.
  2. 2.Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more water closets shall be permitted to have one water closet without an enclosing compartment.
  3. 3.This provision is not applicable to toilet areas located within Group I-3 housing areas.

405.3.4.1​

Each water closet provided in separate facilities shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions and a door enclosing the fixtures to ensure privacy and shall comply with Section 405.3.1. Accessible water closets and compartments shall comply with ICC A117.1.

405.3.4.2​

Each water closet provided in a multiuser gender-neutral toilet facility shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions including the doors thereto, which shall extend to the floor and to the ceiling with maximum 1/2-inch (13 mm) clearances at the floor and ceiling, with gaps not exceeding 1/8-inch (3 mm) between the doors and partitions and partitions and walls, and shall comply with Section 405.3.1. Accessible water closet compartments shall comply with ICC A117.1 and the increased toe clearance requirements.

405.3.5​

Each urinal utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate area with walls or partitions to provide privacy. The horizontal dimension between walls or partitions at each urinal shall be not less than 30 inches (762 mm). The walls or partitions shall begin at a height not greater than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater. All fully enclosed compartments shall be provided with occupancy indicators.

Exceptions:

  1. 1.Urinal partitions shall not be required in a single-occupant or family-assisted-use toilet room with a lockable door.
  2. 2.Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more urinals shall be permitted to have one urinal without partitions.


405.3.5.1​

The walls or partitions for urinals in separate facilities shall begin at a height not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater.

405.3.5.2​

Each urinal provided in a multiuser gender-neutral toilet facility shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions, including the doors thereto, where the partitions extend to the floor and to the ceiling with maximum 1/ 2-inch (13 mm) clearances, with gaps not exceeding 1/8-inch (3 mm) between the doors and partitions and partitions and walls, or shall all be located in a separate room with a door, enclosing the urinals to ensure privacy. Where an accessible urinal is located within a compartment, grab bars shall not be required for the urinal, the door shall be located to allow for a forward approach to the urinal, and increased toe clearances shall be provided in accordance with ICC A117.1.

Exceptions:
  1. 1. A separate room or compartment shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.
  2. 2. This provision is not applicable to toilet areas located within Group I-3 occupancy housing areas.
 
Paul Sweet said:
Virginia made several amendments to the 2021 IPC to allow lavatories outside the room with the water closet and to allow multiuser gender-neutral toilet facilities:

405.3.2​

In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet.

Exception: In educational use occupancies, the required lavatory shall be permitted to be located adjacent to the room or space containing the water closet, provided that not more than one operational door is between the water closet and the lavatory.

405.3.3​

Piping, fixtures or equipment shall not be located in such a manner as to interfere with the normal operation of windows, doors or other means of egress openings.

405.3.4​

Each water closet utilized by the public or employees shall comply with Sections 405.3.4.1 and 405.3.4.2, as applicable. All fully enclosed compartments shall be provided with occupancy indicators.

Exceptions:
  1. 1.Water closet compartments shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.
  2. 2.Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more water closets shall be permitted to have one water closet without an enclosing compartment.
  3. 3.This provision is not applicable to toilet areas located within Group I-3 housing areas.

405.3.4.1​

Each water closet provided in separate facilities shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions and a door enclosing the fixtures to ensure privacy and shall comply with Section 405.3.1. Accessible water closets and compartments shall comply with ICC A117.1.

405.3.4.2​

Each water closet provided in a multiuser gender-neutral toilet facility shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions including the doors thereto, which shall extend to the floor and to the ceiling with maximum 1/2-inch (13 mm) clearances at the floor and ceiling, with gaps not exceeding 1/8-inch (3 mm) between the doors and partitions and partitions and walls, and shall comply with Section 405.3.1. Accessible water closet compartments shall comply with ICC A117.1 and the increased toe clearance requirements.

405.3.5​

Each urinal utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate area with walls or partitions to provide privacy. The horizontal dimension between walls or partitions at each urinal shall be not less than 30 inches (762 mm). The walls or partitions shall begin at a height not greater than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater. All fully enclosed compartments shall be provided with occupancy indicators.

Exceptions:

  1. 1.Urinal partitions shall not be required in a single-occupant or family-assisted-use toilet room with a lockable door.
  2. 2.Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more urinals shall be permitted to have one urinal without partitions.


405.3.5.1​

The walls or partitions for urinals in separate facilities shall begin at a height not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater.

405.3.5.2​

Each urinal provided in a multiuser gender-neutral toilet facility shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions, including the doors thereto, where the partitions extend to the floor and to the ceiling with maximum 1/ 2-inch (13 mm) clearances, with gaps not exceeding 1/8-inch (3 mm) between the doors and partitions and partitions and walls, or shall all be located in a separate room with a door, enclosing the urinals to ensure privacy. Where an accessible urinal is located within a compartment, grab bars shall not be required for the urinal, the door shall be located to allow for a forward approach to the urinal, and increased toe clearances shall be provided in accordance with ICC A117.1.

Exceptions:
  1. 1. A separate room or compartment shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.
  2. 2. This provision is not applicable to toilet areas located within Group I-3 occupancy housing areas.
Click to expand...
Yep...I know we are heading in that direction but our health people hate it....Seems like they are only OK with one doorhandle before washing your hands and not 2...
 
steveray said:
Sooooo....the unisex bradley sink is in the same room as the boys AND girls water closets?
Click to expand...
In the sense that the toilet rooms are off of a corridor and the "sinks" are immediately outside of the large entrance to the room with the water closets...2 sets of vanities instead of the original wall hung sinks...you use the toilets and the lavs are on the wall as you exit the area of the toilets...and I used the bradley unit as an example of what is common...these were individual wall hung lavs in the original design...you walk out of the area of the toilets and are facing the wall hung sinks prior to exiting into the corridor.
 
Henchalwoog said:
Yes - the whole issue stems from the approved plans indicating all wall hung lavs as accessible...during the construction the owner and the contractor decided to switch out the wall hungs for vanities with no knee clearance and too high of rims...now they want to provide an additional single accessible wall hung lav to serve both toilet rooms
Click to expand...
Please confirm (Y/N):
  1. There are separate mens and womens multi-user restrooms. Their signage identifies them by gender (no unisex signage).
  2. The restrooms have multiple fixtures (such as several water closets, each with its own compartment and compartment door).
  3. Inside both the restrooms, there are non-accessible vanity-mounted lavatories.
  4. Each restroom has its own entry/exit door that separates it from some common room or common area, and from the other restroom.
  5. In the common room/area, the Owner is proposing to add one accessible lavatory for use by both multi-user restrooms.
If the answer to all 5 is "yes", then in this scenario a woman who has just used the accessible W/C in the womens room opens the compartment door, goes past the non-accessible vanities in the women's restroom, goes out the restroom entry door, then finds the accessible lav in the common area, which is shared with the mens room (and with anyone else in the common area). Is that correct?
 
Last edited:
Yikes said:
Please confirm (Y/N):
  1. There are separate mens and womens multi-user restrooms. Their signage identifies them by gender (no unisex signage).
  2. The restrooms have multiple fixtures (such as several water closets, each with its own compartment and compartment door).
  3. Inside both the restrooms, there are non-accessible vanity-mounted lavatories.
  4. Each restroom has its own entry/exit door that separates it from some common room or common area, and from the other restroom.
  5. In the common room/area, the Owner is proposing to add one accessible lavatory for use by both multi-user restrooms.
If the answer to all 5 is "yes", then in this scenario a woman who has just used the accessible W/C in the womens room opens the compartment door, goes past the non-accessible vanities in the women's restroom, goes out the restroom entry door, then finds the accessible lav in the common area, which is shared with the mens room (and with anyone else in the common area). Is that correct?
Click to expand...
1. Yes
2. Correct
3. Correct
4. Correct
5. Correct - still within the toilet room area and before you would exit into a corridor by turning right or left
 
Well after a discussion with the owners they agreed to provide 2 accessible lavs - one for each sex...they are asking for a week to get the install and want a temp CO for the interim...I may have to take this as a win and move on even tho the sinks won't be available for a week...
 
Henchalwoog said:
Well after a discussion with the owners they agreed to provide 2 accessible lavs - one for each sex...they are asking for a week to get the install and want a temp CO for the interim...I may have to take this as a win and move on even tho the sinks won't be available for a week...
Click to expand...
The jurisdiction I work the in the most would flat our refuse a TCO in this situation. They've done it to me before. Their justification? "You'd be actively discriminating against people if you open without those accessible lavs." Which, yeah, that's true.

Not your fault they changed the design without telling anyone.
 
Henchalwoog said:
1. Yes
2. Correct
3. Correct
4. Correct
5. Correct - still within the toilet room area and before you would exit into a corridor by turning right or left
Click to expand...
You didn't state where your project is located, or what code applies. Here in California, our accessibility code is based on model language from the 2010 ADA Standards. If you were using either of those, the installation as described in post #1 would not comply. Here's why:

California Plumbing Code (CPC) definition of "toilet facility"
A room or space containing not less than one lavatory and one water closet.

422.2 Separate Facilities​
Separate toilet facilities shall be provided for each sex.​

So there we see that a toilet facility is "a room or space" (not spread out over multiple rooms or spaces), and that the room must contain at least one lav and one toilet. We also see that the default in CPC 422.2 is that separate rooms, each with its own toilet and lav, must be provided for each sex.

Now let's look at accessibility requirements.
CBC 11B (ADAS) 213.2 Where toilet rooms are provided EACH toilet room shall comply with 603.
213.3 Plumbing fixtures and accessories provided in a toilet room or bathing room required to comply with 213.2 shall comply with 213.3
213.3.4 Lavatories. Where lavatories are provided at least 10 percent but no fewer than one shall comply.

The way I see it, once they have provided lavs inside the toilet room, at least one of them needs to be accessible.

Your local code may read differently. I assume your building code is separate from ADA, but it may share similar language.
 
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