2013 California Plumbing Code - Urinals

[MtnArch]

Working on responding to a plan check for a 1,500sf sandwich shop and one of the comments is to show calculation of plumbing fixture count using Table 422.1 and Table 'A', and to provide a urinal in the Men's room.

In looking at the table I was surprised to see that a urinal is now required in most occupancies (not required in F, I, R (most) and S). Are most jurisdictions not enforcing this or are they just not aware (like me) of the requirement?

No complaint, other than shame on me for not catching this one before we submitted!

 

[conarb]

Alan:

I thought that we were going to have to provide all rest rooms as unisex to comply with civil rights law, I would suppose that the urinal requirement made it's way into the CPC as a water conservation issue, but shouldn't the urinal be enclosed by partitions?

 

[mark handler]

Alan

Read the footnotes

Urinal not required in a sandwich shop WITH LESS THAN 50 OCCUPANTS

 

[MtnArch]

AlanRead the footnotes

Urinal not required in a sandwich shop WITH LESS THAN 50 OCCUPANTS

Can I quote you on that one to the plan checker? The IAPMO online version doesn't include THAT footnote!

 

[pete_t]

AlanGo herehttp://www.iapmo.org/2013%20California%20Plumbing%20Code/Chapter%2004.pdf

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[MtnArch]

D'oh! Dummy me ... I was looking for the literal words that Mark posted instead of actually R-E-A-D-I-N-G the footnotes!

Sigh ... guess it was a much longer day than I thought it had been! Thanks Mark and Pete!

 

[JBI]

My conundrum with the Codes in general... sections that address 'A' occupancies with 'an occupant load less than 50'.

If the OL is <50 then Chapter 3 states it is not an 'A' occupancy... WTF?

 

[north star]

# ~ # ~ #

JBI,

The 50 occupants is the threshold that separates the "A" Occ. Group

from the "B" Occ. Group..........Not sure why, but 50 is the magic

number.

Maybe one of our esteemed Forum members can enlighten us

on the 50 number.



# ~ # ~ #

 

[mark handler]

The 50 occupants is the threshold that separates the "A" Occ. Group from the "B" Occ. Group..........Not sure why, but 50 is the magic number.

Maybe one of our esteemed Forum members can enlighten us on the 50 number.

The Code Gods consider small establishments that typically serve food and have less than 50 seats, that technically meet the definition of an assembly occupancy, a lower risk than a typical assembly occupancy, and there must be a number. They could have choose 52 or 48.....

 

[mtlogcabin]

If a number is in the code and ends in 0 or 5 it is an arbitrary number that was agreed upon for no specific reason other than that is the one the majority agreed with at the code adoption hearing.

 

[JBI]

Perhaps my question was unclear... I understand the threshold, regardless of its' origin.

What I don't understand is the plethora of Code sections/tables/etc. that refer to 'A' occupancies with less than 50 occupant load.

 

[ADAguy]

50 or more requires (2) exits, "Duh".

MH, careful with sandwich shop vs food as noted in table.

Also note that even if less than 50 and alcohol is served, both a toilet and a urinal is required (no mention of privacy stalls) in a men's room in some counties in California. Not a CPC requirement but an ABC requirement.

In older bars this can be a a clear floor space issue as to minimum ADA clearances.