2x6 span 16’

[asmith1923]

This is why I said this thread scares me. I believe we have someone looking for someone to tell them what they want to hear and we don't have all of the facts. What we want to do, what we are allowed to do and what we can afford to do are often completely different things.

Thanks for your feedback, just looking for someone that will tell me what won't fail or too much deflection to be liveable. Not looking for code compliance since it isn't a permitted structure and as someone else mentioned - I don't have the proper ceiling height anyway. If it were, these plans would be going through a structural engineer.

 

[jar546]

Thanks for your feedback, just looking for someone that will tell me what won't fail or too much deflection to be liveable. Not looking for code compliance since it isn't a permitted structure and as someone else mentioned - I don't have the proper ceiling height anyway. If it were, these plans would be going through a structural engineer.

You haven't provided enough detailed information, even the PDF you provided is partial. Why are you not working with your local building department to get some of these questions answered? We always have people willing to help and give an opinion, but not design or take any responsibility. You have created an interesting thread for the group to digest, but I want to make clear that we are not a DIY resource for "how to."

Here is what what provide for those that don't want to download a PDF to look at it. It does not tell the whole story and is less than basic at best.

 

[wwhitney]

There is a Living room above this area and no roof load. The area is being built within a pole barn. I'm leaning towards tripled 2"x6" for the beam and 2"x6" @ 24" OC for the joists.

OK, your diagram (which I take to mean that on the top half of the page, the joists have a bearing wall below near midspan) reveals a bunch of problems with your description and/or understanding of the situation, such as

1) Your framing plan has no cantilever.
2) The question in the OP is irrelevant to your framing plan.
3) The sizing quoted above is woefully inadequate.
4) For questions like this, the difference between 15' 4" and 16' is significant.

So for now just two further comments: the entire thread so far has been about how you would frame the lower 4' 4" section of your floor framing if it has only joists that run left-right (on the page) and clear span. And the answer is that you would need approximately (13) 2x6 joists running left-right in that 52" region, i.e. one every 4" (on average, they could be grouped as say triples every 12"). From which I hope you can see that for your framing plan, even two triple 2x6 beams, one at each edge of the 52" wide region, would be way too small; 6 is a lot less than 13.

Second, this seems like a lot of trouble to eliminate one or two posts in the middle of your 15'4" span within that 4'4" wide region. Continuing the mid span wall at the top of the page as a flush beam with a couple posts would be the prescriptive way to handle your situation, and the IRC tables on girders would tell you how to size that beam.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Thanks for your feedback, just looking for someone that will tell me what won't fail or too much deflection to be liveable. Not looking for code compliance since it isn't a permitted structure and as someone else mentioned - I don't have the proper ceiling height anyway. If it were, these plans would be going through a structural engineer.

I don't think you escape code compliance just because you are exempt from needing a permit.

IRC:

R101.2 Scope. The provisions of this code shall apply to the
construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement,
repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, removal and
demolition of detached one- and two-family dwellings and
townhouses not more than three stories above grade plane in
height with a separate means of egress and their accessory
structures not more than three stories above grade plane in
height.

The code applies whether or not the size of the project makes it exempt from requiring a permit. That said, why is no permit required? What has your jurisdiction done with IRC section R105.2?

R105.2 Work exempt from permit. Exemption from permit
requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization
for any work to be done in any manner in violation of
the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of
this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the
following:
Building:
1. Other than storm shelters, one-story detached accessory
structures, provided that the floor area does not
exceed 200 square feet (18.58 m2).
2. Fences not over 7 feet (2134 mm) high.
3. Retaining walls that are not over 4 feet (1219 mm)
in height measured from the bottom of the footing to
the top of the wall, unless supporting a surcharge.
4. Water tanks supported directly upon grade if the
capacity does not exceed 5,000 gallons (18 927 L)
and the ratio of height to diameter or width does not
exceed 2 to 1.
5. Sidewalks and driveways.
6. Painting, papering, tiling, carpeting, cabinets,
counter tops and similar finish work.
7. Prefabricated swimming pools that are less than 24
inches (610 mm) deep.
8. Swings and other playground equipment.
9. Window awnings supported by an exterior wall that
do not project more than 54 inches (1372 mm) from
the exterior wall and do not require additional
support.
10. Decks not exceeding 200 square feet (18.58 m2) in
area, that are not more than 30 inches (762 mm)
above grade at any point, are not attached to a
dwelling and do not serve the exit door required by
Section R311.4.

 

[bill1952]

The code applies whether or not.....

That assumes he lives in a jurisdiction where some legislative body has adopted a code into law. There are areas in the US where there is no code.

 

[jar546]

That assumes he lives in a jurisdiction where some legislative body has adopted a code into law. There are areas in the US where there is no code.

Does both Maryland and Virginia have state building codes?

 

[bill1952]

Does both Maryland and Virginia have state building codes?

I don't know. Is that where the building is?

 

[ICE]

This thread is a hoot. The guy says that he's building a two story dwelling inside a pole barn and you folks are concerned about whether he will be getting a permit. What's the odds that he could get a permit? The second floor design that has been proposed was last used on Noah's ark.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

That assumes he lives in a jurisdiction where some legislative body has adopted a code into law. There are areas in the US where there is no code.

He didn't say there is no code. He said he is exempt from needing a permit. That implies that there IS a code, and that most projects DO require a permit.

 

[bill1952]

@asmith1923 - can you tell us why you will not require a permit?

 

[Paul Sweet]

There is a Haymarket, Virginia. Virginia uses the 2018 IRC with state amendments and will be going to the 2021 shortly. Agricultural buildings are exempt from permits, but farm dwellings aren't.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

There is a Haymarket, Virginia. Virginia uses the 2018 IRC with state amendments and will be going to the 2021 shortly. Agricultural buildings are exempt from permits, but farm dwellings aren't.

A pole barn as an accessory to a single family residence may be exempt from permits (and codes), but once you put a dwelling or sleeping unit in it I don't see how it's exempt from either permit or code.

 

[ICE]

I don't see

There's the answer.

 

[Mark K]

For the calculator, I used L/360, as appropriate for a floor system, which I neglected to mention. For the IRC tables, as indicated, also L/360.


No, so I couldn't sign anything official. But I understand the math that the engineering and the AWC calculators use. There's a strength check and a deflection check. There's also a bearing area check, which I did not consider, but as the IRC tables do not call out anything extraordinary in that regard, standard IRC details would apply.

To understand my IRC table based answer, there's just two fairly simple engineering principles you need to know, and you don't need to get into the details of the relevant equations.

1) All the relevant checks are based on the load per member. So if you double the load, and double the member frequency, the allowable span is unchanged.
2) The deflection equation is linear in the load per member. So if you halve the load per member, you halve the deflection.

In the above, I say "double" or "halve" but those are simple to understand proxies for "any multiplicative factor". I guess there's also an assumption about the IRC tables, that the span table values for bending members depend only on the specified parameters (member species, grade, spacing, loading, and deflection limit) and not on the member name (floor joist, ceiling joist, etc).

Cheers, Wayne

An engineering license is needed when an individual provides engineering services to another person. But if you are the owner of the property and you did the calculations yourself you only need to show compliance with the building code. Suggest that this is supported by a careful reading of the state licensing statutes.