903.2.11.1.3 basement sprinkler requirements

[mtlogcabin]

[F] 903.2.11.1.3 Basements.

Where any portion of a basement is located more than 75 feet (22 860 mm) from openings required by Section 903.2.11.1, or where walls, partitions or other obstructions are installed that restrict the application of water from hose streams, the basement shall be equipped throughout with an approved automatic sprinkler system.

The highlighted section is new. I have read the commentary and have not quite got my head rapped around when the requirement kicks in.

anybody care to offer a scenario or two.

 

[JBI]

Underground parking garage with substantial concrete columns; basements that are partitioned.

That' 2.

 

[fatboy]

"or where walls, partitions or other obstructions"

If you have any interior wall in the basement, the sprinkler requirement triggers. That's how we are reading it

 

[cda]

"or where walls, partitions or other obstructions"If you have any interior wall in the basement, the sprinkler requirement triggers. That's how we are reading it

not sure that makes since?

 

[cda]

so it looks like it changed from the 09 to the 12.

Does anyone have access to the change proposed to the 2012??

 

[fatboy]

To me the idea is the fire folks don't want to try and fight a basement fire around or through walls, if it is wide open, their hose stream can knock it down. JMHO

If you have the time and patience you can go back through the archives on the ICC site, they have all the gyrations for each code adoption, it's just a pain to get through.

 

[north star]

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My WAG is:

In reading through some of NFPA 13, ...[ IMO ] it seems to be a dimensional requirement.

I haven't located specific language that states that, but seemingly it is somewhere

between 50 - 75 ft. of an approved hose stream............Any obstructions within that

50 - 75 ft. range would require an approved, alternative sprinkler design for those

spaces [ RE: NFPA 13, Ch. 21 - Alternative Sprinkler Designs For Ch. 12 Through 20 ].

I'm still looking tho'...



= & = & =

 

[FM William Burns]

Fatboy has a pretty good handle on it. Subterranean spaces present very difficult challenging fire scenarios due to the lack of ventilation and high temperature developing conditions due to the lack of abilities to reduce them through natural or positive pressure ventilation. Having occupancies where subterranean compartments are created also present difficulties in rescue and survival. Many firefighters have lost their lives in basements with our most recent in Philly the other day. Hose stretches into subterranean spaces of greater than 50' decrease the rescue potential. Fire spread in confined spaces without hose stream advancement abilities can also bring the entire structure down. This was a successful initiative driven by the fire service representation in the code development process I believe.

 

[cda]

= & = & =

My WAG is:

In reading through some of NFPA 13, ...[ IMO ] it seems to be a dimensional requirement.

I haven't located specific language that states that, but it seemingly it is somewhere

between 50 - 75 ft. of an approved hose stream............Any obstructions within that

50 - 75 ft. range would require an approved sprinkler design for those spaces.

I'm still looking tho'...



= & = & =

Don't think you will find it

 

[cda]

Do if you have a basement 30 feet from an opening no sprinklers required

But if you put up one wall that obstructs the spray you have to sprinkle it???

 

[north star]

+ & + & +

"But if you put up one wall that obstructs the spray you have to sprinkle it???"

Spray from what if no sprinklers are required ?+ & + & +

 

[mtlogcabin]

FM

Here is a scenario

1400 sq ft 28 X 50 basement with no windows. Door and stair at the 50 ft end other end has water heater and HVAC equipment. No sprinklers required.

Right before CO owner wants to install a wall and create a "mechanical room". Now he has to install a fire suppression system throughout the basement?

 

[fatboy]

you got it cda.........

I probably have a handle on it because I probably heard the arguments at the hearings, and have blocked it from my memory.

 

[cda]

+ & + & +Spray from what if no sprinklers are required ?

+ & + & +

1, or where walls, partitions or other obstructions are installed that restrict the application of water from hose streams, the basement shall be equipped throughout with an approved automatic sprinkler system.

 

[fatboy]

mt, I think at that point you could make the argument that the scenario you describe would not block the hose stream, as they would have access to the entire basement, sans the mechanical room

 

[cda]

Need to find to change proposal to the 2012

And

Can anyone post the 2012 commentary ???

 

[north star]

~ & ~ & ~



cda,

For my own clarification, ...are you saying that anything greater

than the 30 ft. dimension would require sprinkling ?.........Thanks !

Also, ...regarding **mtlogcabin** scenario, would a lock on that

proposed Mech. Room wall door, trigger the sprinkling ?





~ & ~ & ~

 

[cda]

~ & ~ & ~

cda,

For my own clarification, ...are you saying that anything greater

than the 30 ft. dimension would require sprinkling ?.........Thanks !

Also, ...regarding **mtlogcabin** scenario, would a lock on that

proposed Mech. Room wall door, trigger the sprinkling ?





~ & ~ & ~

No, just trying to give a scenario

"""Where any portion of a basement is located more than 75 feet ""

Say it is only 30 feet from an opening, but one wall is blocking, you would have to sprinkle

And also there is no " maximum " size of a basement "with an obstruction" before sprinklers are required, per that section

 

[mtlogcabin]

And also there is no " maximum " size of a basement "with an obstruction" before sprinklers are required, per that section

Or minimum size of basement

 

[JBI]

Or provide a window in the boiler room?

There was an older Code that did not require a rated enclosure for a residential boiler/furnace room, but if you did enclose it 45 min rating and door assembly would be required.

 

[cda]

Or minimum size of basement

Yep that is what I meant to say

 

[FM William Burns]

MT,

Not if the distance does not exceed 75' or if the wall, partition etc. does not obstruct the hose stream. The scenario you provide will still allow TD <75' with the ability to advance a hose and enact a stream if reading your example correctly and ability to bail out with the opening in accordance with the applicable code section referenced.

 

[mtlogcabin]

The wall would be blocking the hose stream in the seperate "HVAC room"

So in NEW construction sprinklers would be required even though the distance is less than 75 ft is the way I am reading it.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

I highly recommend to architects and code officials to obtain a copy of Significant Changes (SCIBC) to the IBC 20XX Edition. They provide additional insight and illustrations not in the commentaries.

Last paragraph from the 2012 SCIBC ;

“One concern during interior fire fighting operations is obstruction of fire streams. Obstructions such as walls or partitions may prevent the application of water onto the area of fire involvement. The installation of an automatic sprinkler system in basements over 1500 sf in floor area is now required when obstructions such as walls, partitions or similar elements are introduced which could obstruct the application of hose streams. It should be noted that whether the wall contains door openings or not has no effect on the application of the provision. While some code locations of Class II standpipe (Section 905.5) allow measuring along an available route through the building and through doors, the presence of doorways has no bearing on the code’s application. Because a wall of and size has the potential to “restrict the application of water,” the building official should be consulted if the design indicates anything other than a wide-open, unfurnished space and sprinklers are not intended to be installed.”



An interesting training interpretation; https://ibcode.com/uploads/Fire_Code_Question_-_January_25__2012.pdf