A Code that Goes in a Circle?

[jar546]

There is no definition of concealed space in the Florida Building Code

In a concealed space between the drywall ceiling of a Type IIB high rise and the slab above to the next floor is cast iron pipe for a tub.

The contractor, in changing the tub to a shower and has to move the drain 2'.

Contractor replaces that section of pipe and new trap with PVC.

Can he do it?

603.1Allowable materials.​

Combustible materials shall be permitted in buildings of Type I or II construction in the following applications and in accordance with Sections 603.1.1 through 603.1.3:
24.Materials allowed in the concealed spaces of buildings of Types I and II construction in accordance with Section 718.5.
25.Materials exposed within plenums complying with Section 602 of the Florida Building Code, Mechanical.

603.1.2Piping.​

The use of combustible piping materials shall be permitted where installed in accordance with the limitations of the Florida Building Code, Mechanical and the Florida Building Code, Plumbing.

718.5Combustible materials in concealed spaces in Type I or II construction.​

Combustible materials shall not be permitted in concealed spaces of buildings of Type I or II construction.

Exceptions:
1.Combustible materials in accordance with Section 603.
2.Combustible materials exposed within plenums complying with Section 602 of the Florida Building Code, Mechanical.
3.Class A interior finish materials classified in accordance with Section 803.
4.Combustible piping within partitions or shaft enclosures installed in accordance with the provisions of this code.
5.Combustible piping within concealed ceiling spaces installed in accordance with the Florida Building Code, Mechanical and the Florida Building Code, Plumbing.
6.Combustible insulation and covering on pipe and tubing, installed in concealed spaces other than plenums, complying with Section 720.7.

If this is not a plenum space which is covered under 602 of the Mechanical Code and the Plumbing Code is silent on this issue, where in the IBC/FBC can you find where the installation of plumbing material in a concealed space?

 

[steveray]

Anything in the plumbing code is allowed....

 

[jar546]

Anything in the plumbing code is allowed....

Not if it is in a plenum space.
PVC is combustible.
So if it is in a Type 1 or 2 building in a concealed ceiling space, can you install combustible PVC?

 

[steveray]

Not if it is in a plenum space.
PVC is combustible.
So if it is in a Type 1 or 2 building in a concealed ceiling space, can you install combustible PVC?

Yes.....unless it is a plenum....

I was answering this (below) so I did not address plenum in my sort response:

"If this is not a plenum space which is covered under 602 of the Mechanical Code and the Plumbing Code is silent on this issue, where in the IBC/FBC can you find where the installation of plumbing material in a concealed space?"

Just like in the wall or whatever...If you read 4,5, and 6 together it might make more sense....

 

[mark handler]

2020 Florida Building Code, Building, 7th Edition
CHAPTER 2 DEFINITIONS SECTION 201 GENERAL
201.3 Terms defined in other codes.
Where terms are not defined in this code and are defined in the Florida Building Code, Energy Conservation; Florida Building Code, Fuel Gas; Florida Fire Prevention Code; Florida Building Code, Mechanical or Florida Building Code, Plumbing, such terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them as in those codes.

2020 Florida Building Code, Mechanical, 7th Edition
CHAPTER 2 DEFINITIONS SECTION 201 GENERAL
CONCEALED LOCATION. A location that cannot be accessed without damaging permanent parts of the building structure or finish surface. Spaces above, below or behind readily removable panels or doors shall not be considered as concealed.

 

[Paul Sweet]

Aside from this issue, cast iron pipe reduces sound better than plastic does. He might be opening himself up to noise complaints if there is a tenant or condo owner below.

 

[bill1952]

Aside from this issue, cast iron pipe reduces sound better than plastic does. He might be opening himself up to noise complaints if there is a tenant or condo owner below.

There you go, mixing up code compliance with good competent design. Code compliance is necessary but not sufficient for good functional buildings.

 

[jar546]

There you go, mixing up code compliance with good competent design. Code compliance is necessary but not sufficient for good functional buildings.

These buildings were spec's with cast for a reason, probably has to do with sound attenuation. Not a code requirement but happens.

 

[bill1952]

Hey, I'm all for cast iron DWV in noise sensitive spaces. On building I worked on in Houston has these enormous 12" cast iron roof drains. It was an impressive install.