Accessible parking in a private garage

[Sifu]

I have a group of private garage buildings, group U, with 6 to 8 spaces each, in an R2 development. They have OHD's only. Per IBC 1010.1.2 the MOE door is permitted to be other than a side hinged door, and as long as opening force is met, this is permitted.

For both accessible and non-accessible spaces, the MOE width is compromised once a vehicle is in place. So without all the details my questions is this:

Do the spaces get evaluated exclusive of the contents of the space? So provide operational constraints and reach ranges, and take the 9' or 10' width and call it a day? Sorry, this seems like such a nitpicky and obvious question....but if you give someone an accessible space to park, should they not have a minimum width to get out of the garage once they are parked? Or do we accept that if they want to park there, they better drive a little vehicle? The same goes for non-accessible, but I guess they could be expected to shimmy out a little easier.

They have provided the accessible spaces in these group U buildings, but I am not sure they are required to. The have also provided similar garage spaces under the buildings, but those are required per IBC 1106.2 #4. While those spaces do have a side hinged door, they would still be compromised by the parking of the vehicle.

 

[steveray]

1103.2.4 Utility buildings. Group U occupancies are not
required to comply with this chapter other than the following:
1. In agricultural buildings, access is required to paved
work areas and areas open to the general public.
2. Private garages or carports that contain required
accessible parking.

 

[Sifu]

So for the separate group U buildings I don't think it is required, but they are providing it. For the spaces under the R2's, it is required, which satisfies item #2. So the question needs answered either way.

 

[mtlogcabin]

take the 9' or 10' width and call it a day?

Those widths do not meet accessible parking space requirements because a minimum 5 foot access aisle is also required

1106.2 Groups I-1, R-1, R-2, R-3 and R-4.
Accessible parking spaces shall be provided in Group I-1, R-1, R-2, R-3 and R-4 occupancies in accordance with Items 1 through 4 as applicable.

1. In Group R-2, R-3 and R-4 occupancies that are required to have Accessible, Type A or Type B dwelling units or sleeping units, at least 2 percent, but not less than one, of each type of parking space provided shall be accessible.

2. In Group I-1 and R-1 occupancies, accessible parking shall be provided in accordance with Table 1106.1.

3. Where at least one parking space is provided for each dwelling unit or sleeping unit, at least one accessible parking space shall be provided for each Accessible and Type A unit.

4. Where parking is provided within or beneath a building, accessible parking spaces shall be provided within or beneath the building.

 

[Sifu]

The spaces do comply...inside the garage. It is the door opening that is 10'. So theoretically, someone can use the space, they just can't get out of it. Same with the space under the building. The spaces comply, and there is a man-door (can I still say "man"-door?), but it is in front of the parking space, so it could likely be rendered unusable in the presence of a car. These issues apply to normal MOE as well as accessible MOE. Best I can find would be as a corridor @ 36" or as an aisle @ 28", unless they are required to be accessible, then we are at 32". NONE of these things can be measured at the time of inspection because the obstruction isn't there, and would vary in size.

 

[steveray]

Now that I actually read the question....

1001.1 General. Buildings or portions thereof shall be provided
with a means of egress system as required by this chapter.
The provisions of this chapter shall control the design,
construction and arrangement of means of egress components
required to provide an approved means of egress from structures
and portions thereof.

I would require curb stops or some other way to provide the required egress width so as to reduce the likelihood that a vehicle would block the MOE....

 

[Sifu]

Maybe this will help:

 

[steveray]

Ok...so individual egress from an individual car hole.......Still think I would make them shift the OH door over...Unless it is in London....

 

[Paul Sweet]

In Garage 1 can the OH door be moved to the left and a hinged door added on the side, back, or into the covered pasage?

In Garage-HC can either door be moved to the right side?

 

[Sifu]

As this is plan review, yes they can reconfigure or add man-doors. But I want to make sure that I have a firm grasp of the requirements that would cause it. I try very hard to only enforce that which is written, and the intent if I can figure it out. For me, the real question is about the contents. Under most circumstances if I am not shown where a couch is, I don't worry about the fact that they could place it too close to a door so as to restrict a forward approach. However, these garages have a very strongly implied location for the vehicle, and there really is no option other than the size of the vehicle.

Shirley someone out there has experienced this????? There must be thousands of these buildings out there.

 

[my250r11]

IMHO I think the egress door needs to be some where on the 5' aisle area.

 

[Sifu]

I have asked that all private garage accessible parking be provided with an ANSI ch.4 compliant door, accessible route and approach, and that it adjoin the access aisle per ANSI 502.4.1.

 

[Sifu]

I am receiving some resistance to the requirement to add a door in these stand-alone garage units. They have pointed out and I have confirmed that the FHAG has guidance on the accessible parking in a private garage space. It requires the spaces to be 14'2" wide, with a min. 10' garage door. There is no requirement for a separate man-door. I assume the assumption is that the 10' width will allow sufficient space for access around the car. Neither ANSI nor the ADA have any guidance that I can find. Is following the FHAG for these accessible units parking spaces acceptable since the purpose statement for the ANSI standard states that the intent of ANSI is to be consistent with them. Or at least as a compliance alternative?

 

[mtlogcabin]

In order for the 10' garage door to be used by a wheelchair user the garage space must be long enough to leave at least 3' behind the vehicle for an accessible path/route. Most full size vans are 20 ft long from bumper to bumper. they will not fit in your garage

 

[Sifu]

In order for the 10' garage door to be used by a wheelchair user the garage space must be long enough to leave at least 3' behind the vehicle for an accessible path/route. Most full size vans are 20 ft long from bumper to bumper. they will not fit in your garage

These are not wheelchair/van accessible spaces. They have a compliant space and access aisle, but I agree with the point. However since there is guidance from FHAG with specifics for this exact scenario I am trying to determine if that is equivalent. Since we have no idea what vehicle will be parked, can I arbitrarily assign a size, contrary to the FHAG specifics. It seems like FHAG has taken the "likely" scenario into account by requiring a minimum door width. Even if the door was 12' wide, we still can't guarantee the required accessible path since we can't control how the person parks. They could drive an F250, and squeeze as far over as possible and just make it, or they could drive a smart car and park too far to the opposite side and not fit. It seems that the FHAG has determined that a 10' door is reasonable.

 

[ADAguy]

consider if they have a rear deployable ramp vs a side as many now do. 10' door when opened allows deployment and if it rains they get wet.
Can't design for all conditions, request a reasonable accommodation?