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Accessible toilet rooms and sinks

E

E blum

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Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
39
Location
Monsey Ny
Hi

in a class E, if I’m having more than one toilet room on the same floor, do i need in each room an accessible toilet and an accessible urinal?
 
I believe a private office toilet room in a "B" is the only exception, unless that's changed recently with newer codes.
 
Pcinspector1 said:
I believe a private office toilet room in a "B" is the only exception, unless that's changed recently with newer codes.
Click to expand...
You are correct. Although it doesn't mention Group B, Exception 1 to Section 1109.2 does allow a private restroom accessed only from a private office to not be accessible.
 
We also have the ganged single user exception now....

3. Where multiple single-user toilet rooms or bathing
rooms are clustered at a single location, at least 50
percent but not less than one room for each use at
each cluster shall be accessible.
 
Don't agree. Toilet rooms accessed through a private office are not exempt from being accessible but alternatives are allowed for door swing, water closet height, grab bars, and lavatory height, knee and toe clearances. Everything else is required to comply with accessibility requirements.
 
E blum said:
Hi
in a class E, if I’m having more than one toilet room on the same floor, do i need in each room an accessible toilet and an accessible urinal?
Click to expand...
Existing or new, what is the scope of work?
All New facilities shall be accessible.
In an existing facility, not all restrooms need to be.


Not enough information.
 
Rick18071 said:
Don't agree. Toilet rooms accessed through a private office are not exempt from being accessible but alternatives are allowed for door swing, water closet height, grab bars, and lavatory height, knee and toe clearances. Everything else is required to comply with accessibility requirements.
Click to expand...

I agree to disagree along with Rick. The following code sections corespond with Rick's quote, starting with 2015 IBC 1109.2, exception 1 "shall be permitted to comply with the specific exceptions in ICC A117.1." This does not say 'exempt from accessibility requirements" but rather permitted to comply with specific exemptions in A117.1. Using Rick's examples (not certain if it's a complete list) to coorilate with A117.1:

door swing - 603.2.2 excetpion 1
water closet height - 604.4 exception
grab bars - 604.5 exception 1 - 607.4 exception - 608.3 exception
lavatory height - 606.3 exception
knee and toe clearances - 606.2 exception 2

shower seat - 608.2.1.3 exception - 608.2.2.3 exception - 608.2.3.2 exception

Many of these exceptions require preperations for future accessibility alterations.
 
I agree, too. I should have said that they aren't required to be fully accessible. I think the exception in the IBC is really superfluous--I think it would be much better to delete it and leave it to state that restrooms are required to be accessible and then let ICC/ANSI A117.1 determine the exceptions for private restrooms.
 
We also have the ganged single user exception now....

3. Where multiple single-user toilet rooms or bathing
rooms are clustered at a single location, at least 50
percent but not less than one room for each use at
each cluster shall be accessible.
 
So let’s say I’m making 5 toilet rooms on the same floor I will need to have 5 accessible toilets? Does this makes sense?
 
It depends on what the definition of "clustered" is...and what a single location is. Clustered on one floor? In one building? In one town? Steveray quotes one of the poorest code sections ever written.
E blum could take those same 5 toilets, put them in a single toilet facility, and only one compartment would need to be accessible. It does not make a lot of sense.
Regarding the original question, urinals are not required in the model code that we use (2012 I.P.C.). they may be used as a substitution for the required water closets, with certain restrictions.
GPE
 
georgia plans exam said:
It depends on what the definition of "clustered" is...and what a single location is. Clustered on one floor? In one building? In one town? Steveray quotes one of the poorest code sections ever written.
E blum could take those same 5 toilets, put them in a single toilet facility, and only one compartment would need to be accessible. It does not make a lot of sense.
Regarding the original question, urinals are not required in the model code that we use (2012 I.P.C.). they may be used as a substitution for the required water closets, with certain restrictions.
GPE
Click to expand...
if im having 2 toilet rooms in one floor both for Male and per the occupancy i only need one HC why do i need now more?
 
IBC 104.10 gives the building official authority to grant modifications (alternate ways of meeting the intent of the code) where there are "practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code." Cost and inconvenience are usually accepted as adequate justification.
 
No, maybe only The AHJ.
Can you claim hardship (probably not), Just because you don't see it their way (that remains to be determined by AHJ)
Remember that this is not just a "code" issue, it is "federal" law too.
 
I have to be more careful about posting on a Friday.

Cost and inconvenience are usually NOT accepted as adequate justification.
 
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