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ADA compliant bathroom required for used car lot office?

"This entire thread is an example, some guy wants to open a small used car lot, society is going to impose huge costs on him to include a bathroom that may never be used."

Yes..........it will get used, if it's there, it will get used, even the porti-potty.

It is part of the cost of doing business. I grow tired of that excuse every time someone wants a hall pass on a code requirement.

And to the OP (that has not been back since he started the thread)...............

No, I try hard to work with folks, just give me something to hang my hat on, but I will not disregard a code requirement because "I can't afford it".
 
Fatboy said:
"This entire thread is an example, some guy wants to open a small used car lot, society is going to impose huge costs on him to include a bathroom that may never be used."

Yes..........it will get used, if it's there, it will get used, even the porti-potty.
Click to expand...

A simple bathroom requirement has now morphed into a fully ADA compliant bathroom.
 
Code is all about things that may never get used though. When I require a fire separation, I really hope that I caused them cost for absolutely no reason. I hope that fire separation never has to protect life or property. I hope it was a complete and total waste of money.

Fatboy, I like to say "give me a reason to approve it"
 
[P] 2902.3.2 Location of toilet facilities in occupancies other than malls.
In occupancies other than covered and open mall buildings, the required public and employee toilet facilities shall be located not more than one story above or below the space required to be provided with toilet facilities, and the path of travel to such facilities shall not exceed a distance of 500 feet (152 m).

Is there an adjacent building within 500 ft that will allow the use of its existing facilities.

We have used this approach twice when placing a drive up coffee kiosk on a parcel. We require a notarized "lease" detailing the use and hours available.
Kiosk has no restrooms within the building. Similar to a gas station attendant in a kiosk located in a grocery store parking lot.
 
Conarb loves to Wa-Wa. Is it time to retire or does Wa-Waing help to jump start you every morning?
Let us hope you never need to empty you colonostmy bag, take water pills or use a mobility device in the time you have remaining.
Kudos to Mark for "understanding" the need to enforce laws and codes he did not write.
As a % of total cost, access is a minimal and required cost. Most with disabilities have to live with them a lifetime and appreciate every accommodation the law requires.
There money is just as green as yours.
 
When you have tyrannical laws it's time for open rebellion, laws have to be reasonable, Mountain Man's approach is reasonable, MH's "go by the letter of the law" is not reasonable.
 
conarb said:
A simple bathroom requirement has now morphed into a fully ADA compliant bathroom.
Click to expand...

Other than physical size there's not a difference between a "simple" bathroom and a "fully ADA compliant bathroom". ..... So
 
MattLilli said:
Thank you Mark Handler for actually providing me information regarding code and a reasonable solution. The portapot is a good idea and a fair compromise.

Thank you to the first two posters for answering the question that was not asked: "can anyone think of a situation where a bathroom at a used car office would come in handy". Also, fatboy, if you are the administrator of the this site, I would think you would be capable of providing information rather than trying to be cute and then criticizing someone's possible intent behind their question. You probably loved requiring people to have r38 attic doors until it was accepted to be stupid requiring an interior door to be more insulated than the exterior ones. I think you need to re-read the welcome message. I would have been happy to make a contribution to the site or upgrade my account based on the amount of money and aggravation Mark's suggestion may save me, but not if you are the administrator. no thank you.
Click to expand...

I've seen what fatboy looks like and cute is not it. Myself, brudgers and you are the only people that have insulted fatboy. That's a pair of assholes and you.
 
ICE said:
Other than physical size there's not a difference between a "simple" bathroom and a "fully ADA compliant bathroom". ..... So
Click to expand...

Size is usually the problem, including here with the used car lot, I'm sure I've told this story before but I built a dentist/s office in the 70s, since it was near a retirement community he specifically had the architect design it for handicapped people, all parking spaces in the lot were 8' wide (he was also a car collector and hated people opening car doors into other cars), the ramp up to the front door was 8' wide and there was no threshold to go over, when it came to the restrooms he had one large room with the lav in an outside vestibule.

When he decided to retire he did as most dentists and doctors do, he made a deal to sell his practice to a young dentist, rent him the office, and bring him in a year early to train him and pass the practice on to another generation, it's common for each dentist to have two or even three operatories so they can work on two to three patients at a time, he had three operatories and bringing in a second dentist would require at least one more operatory.

He called me in to reconfigure the space to get another operatory, that way he'd have two for each dentist. I explained that one of the ways we create more space is to eliminate one restroom and create a unisex restroom, we couldn't do that in his case since he only had one and the that restroom would have to remain large so that it would have to have the proper wheelchair turning radius.

In the end he called saying that he had decided to do nothing and sell his practice without training the young dentist, he had property in the mountains and was retiring there, he refused to live and work in a society that had become this tyrannical.
 
Love it, 47 years ago you voluntairily did a good thing based on a business decision by the owner; now because of a business decision he takes the high road and sells it as is to let someone else deal with the issue.
 
ADAguy said:
Love it, 47 years ago you voluntairily did a good thing based on a business decision by the owner; now because of a business decision he takes the high road and sells it as is to let someone else deal with the issue.
Click to expand...
Not really, it just remains a one dentist three operatory office with the wheelchair radius 2" shy of compliance. Because of his location there are lots of wheelchair-bound patients, none have ever complained. There is a big difference between doing something that you want to do and something that the government forces you to do.
 
If so many people are being oppressed, surely you could have the law changed. You do live in a democracy after all...
 
tmurray said:
If so many people are being oppressed, surely you could have the law changed. You do live in a democracy after all...
Click to expand...
Oppressed is a strong word.
The code and Laws intent is/was to make buildings accessible to all citizens.
The cost are minimal in new construction but create hardships in existing buildings. There are remedies in the code which most naysayers seem to overlook or intentionally minimize to press their point that it is imposed requirement to provide basic civil rights to people with disabilities.
 
The voice of reason and logic speaks!

The law allows for "reasonable" accommodations, at minimal costs (subject to: justifiable ability to pay (most can't/ don't want to reveal their ability to do so ( fear of invasion of privacy or money laundering by their business?)) .
 
mark handler said:
Oppressed is a strong word.
The code and Laws intent is/was to make buildings accessible to all citizens.
The cost are minimal in new construction but create hardships in existing buildings. There are remedies in the code which most naysayers seem to overlook or intentionally minimize to press their point that it is imposed requirement to provide basic civil rights to people with disabilities.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and while I don't find it appropriate to force someone to undertake renovations on a building that was constructed before the law came into effect, it remains the law and must be complied with.
 
tmurray said:
If so many people are being oppressed, surely you could have the law changed. You do live in a democracy after all...
Click to expand...

T Murray:

You saw us elect a President who campaigned on eliminating 3/4 of our regulations and ending political correctness, you also see how much good that's done us. We are on the verge of economic collapse, maybe you guys better build a wall to keep us out and off your entitlement programs.
 
The auto dealer industry is highly regulated, down to the physical requirements of your dealership. Whether you sell used cars or new, make sure your site adheres to the following:

  • Must have a permanent enclosed building that has a private office for the storage of files.
  • Must have a display area.
  • All outdoor display areas must be properly graded and have adequate lighting.
  • Must have a phone line for business purposes.
  • Must have a sign attached to the building or built separate that displays the dealership's name and can be seen by the public.
  • Your dealership must conform to all local building codes and zoning ordinances.
  • Business hours must be posted somewhere easily visible to the public.
  • Must own a certificate of occupancy that meets all standards of the Pennsylvania Construction Code Act.
 
Thank you MT, isn't any different then other business's and not all dealerships have lots.
Tesla shows in buildings with no inventory but must comply with local codes and ordinances.
 
conarb said:
When did that come into the codes? I can show you all kinds of businesses in major cities with signs on the doors: "No Public Restrooms".

Having prostate/kidney problems I can't ride our BART trains, the restrooms are always placarded "Out of Service", I asked a station agent once and she said they keep them out of service because people shoot up heroin in them.
Click to expand...

Interesting because I grew up in Bay Point - at the end of the Bart Train line. Hence the moniker BayPointArchitect. Fortunately I was not familiar with heroin or meth back then.
 
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