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ADA Excuses

Brent - you are indeed good at jumping on the "this is ridiculous" bandwagon, and I agree with some of your points. Would you agree as well, that there are many instances where a business owner could, and should, have done the right thing, a long time ago?

When I first began doing commercial finals in my town (18 years ago) I was amazed at how often the contractor missed ADA related details. Now I can't help but see the violations when I visit other jurisdictions. And BTW - not a single lawsuit has been filed on my behalf.

How difficult (or expensive) is it really, to install a mirror at the correct height? Or perhaps lever type handles and grab bars?
 
Darren:

You are in Kansas, has Kansas incorporated ADA requirements into it's building codes? For that matter what concern is it of Jeff's, he's in Pennsylvania and to my knowledge Pennsylvania hasn't incorporated ADA into it's codes. Enforcing ADA is none of your business anymore than enforcing federal immigration or drug laws. We have a constitutional situation now where the attorney general of the United States is refusing to enforce federal drug laws, this is derilection of his duties since the executive is required to enforce all federal laws, he can't pick and choose the laws he wants to enforce. As far as I know this is only a California issue.
 
Darren Emery said:
Brent - you are indeed good at jumping on the "this is ridiculous" bandwagon, and I agree with some of your points. Would you agree as well, that there are many instances where a business owner could, and should, have done the right thing, a long time ago? When I first began doing commercial finals in my town (18 years ago) I was amazed at how often the contractor missed ADA related details. Now I can't help but see the violations when I visit other jurisdictions. And BTW - not a single lawsuit has been filed on my behalf.

How difficult (or expensive) is it really, to install a mirror at the correct height? Or perhaps lever type handles and grab bars?
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To your first question. Yes, sometimes.

Second....just a joke. Having a laugh at the ADA Game. We have played more obnoxious road games than that. You have to kill time.

To the last point, how important, really, is the height of a mirror? Only as important as a wonk says it is.

Brent
 
ADA has been the law of the land for 23+ years, and things are still noncompliant
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This is a true statement, however some seem to think that every facility throughout the United States should be fully compliant by now because of this time frame.

When I read Americans with Disabilities Act ADA Guide for Small Businesses http://www.ada.gov/smbusgd.pdf I believe the ADA along with the DOJ recognize and acknowledge this is not possible for all businesses under the barrier removal requirements to be compliant.

I realize the guideline is not law and can not be used as a defense for a violation.

I see posts on here all the time where the DOJ has "won" a lawsuit. Never have I seen a post where the DOJ agreed with a business owner and settled with some minor modifications. Since a lawsuit by the DOJ is a last resort I assume there are a lot more small settlement agreements then lawsuits. I would be interested in reading them, not the ones against large or national companies but the ones filed against mom & pop businesses.
 
All they "need to know" is available "for free" on the internet, if only they would look.

Door symbols are intended to be universal, the shape says it all without being able to read (703.7.2.6.1-.3), being tactile no braille is necessary. The contrast with door colors allows for color blind to distinguish the shape.

No wall sign is necessary as that is redundent unless you choose to do so, if done it must comply with ADA signage requirements.
 
conarb said:
Darren:You are in Kansas, has Kansas incorporated ADA requirements into it's building codes? For that matter what concern is it of Jeff's, he's in Pennsylvania and to my knowledge Pennsylvania hasn't incorporated ADA into it's codes. Enforcing ADA is none of your business anymore than enforcing federal immigration or drug laws. We have a constitutional situation now where the attorney general of the United States is refusing to enforce federal drug laws, this is derilection of his duties since the executive is required to enforce all federal laws, he can't pick and choose the laws he wants to enforce. As far as I know this is only a California issue.
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Conarb - State of Ks attorney general released a directive many years ago (just before I became a city inspector in '96) that building departments in Ks are to review each project for ADA compliance when issuing a building permit.
 
MASSDRIVER said:
To the last point, how important, really, is the height of a mirror? Only as important as a wonk says it is.

Brent
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If you happen to be in a wheelchair, the height of a mirror may be VERY important to you.
 
Darren Emery said:
If you happen to be in a wheelchair, the height of a mirror may be VERY important to you.
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Agree but as a business owner I cannot "tilt" the mirror to make it usable by all. The intent is met but the letter of the law is not.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Agree but as a business owner I cannot "tilt" the mirror to make it usable by all. The intent is met but the letter of the law is not.
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Good point - I have often thought the tilted mirror at about 42" (common height of lavatory + backsplash in my experience) is a good solution, but do not have the authority to "flex" on these ADA issues. Very frustrating at times.
 
Darren Emery said:
Conarb - State of Ks attorney general released a directive many years ago (just before I became a city inspector in '96) that building departments in Ks are to review each project for ADA compliance when issuing a building permit.
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Darren:

I don't doubt you but you have to agree that is strange, the state attorney general is not charged to enforce federal law, he enforces state statutes, are you charged with enforcing other federal laws?
 
New must meet the strict code height, But in a retrofit attach a new mirror, at proper height, to wall adjacent to lav
 
conarb said:
Darren:I don't doubt you but you have to agree that is strange, the state attorney general is not charged to enforce federal law, he enforces state statutes, are you charged with enforcing other federal laws?
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There are state statutes bringing the ADA into play for the AHJ during construction.
 
Darren Emery said:
There are state statutes bringing the ADA into play for the AHJ during construction.
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I having lunch with another attorney today and I'm going to knock it around with him, is the ADA brought in by reference into your statutes? If so do you have the section number? Maybe I can look it up, print it out and we can discuss it. Granting special privileges to certain classes was supposed to be constitutional only as a time delimited remedy as redress for past grievances, Justice O'Connor said 25 more years 10 years ago.
 
A sloped mirror only allows me to see the top of my head, not my face. Want to apply makeup to the top of "your" head?

Ride around in a WC for a day and you just might better understand user issues.
 
conarb said:
I having lunch with another attorney today and I'm going to knock it around with him, is the ADA brought in by reference into your statutes? If so do you have the section number? Maybe I can look it up, print it out and we can discuss it. Granting special privileges to certain classes was supposed to be constitutional only as a time delimited remedy as redress for past grievances, Justice O'Connor said 25 more years 10 years ago.
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See Chapter 58 - Section 13

http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/statute/058_000_0000_chapter/058_013_0000_article/
 
Is it even legal for states to enforce the ADA through reference or through the adoption of state codes that follow the federal provisions? It is appearantly illegal for states to enforce immigration law through parallel state statues.

"Today's ruling appropriately bars the state of Arizona from effectively criminalizing unlawful status in the state and confirms the federal government's exclusive authority to regulate in the area of immigration," Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement.

Waiting for Holder to file similar suit stopping state building codes from enforcing accessibility issues.
 
Personally, I'm not very familiar with the ADA, but I sure am familiar with ANSI A117.1. If a building - and component spaces - comply with A117, does that mean it's ADA compliant too?
 
Re: ADA Excuses

Mech said:
What is a safe harbor document?
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It essentially means a document has been approved and meets the minimum qualifications of the current standard or law such as ANSI being used for design in lieu of ADA design standards in some limited areas. You are in a "safe harbor".
 
You are "waiting" why?

Feds write laws of national importance and expect states to draft enabling laws of their own based on the minimums set by the Feds, no?

Is not a code an enforceable law?
 
ADA Guy said:
Feds write laws of national importance and expect states to draft enabling laws of their own based on the minimums set by the Feds, no?
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What about our drug laws? Not only state medical marijauna but Colorado and Washington passing recreational marijuana laws in direct contradiction of the federal laws.
 
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