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ADA Pool lift question

mtlogcabin

mtlogcabin

SAWHORSE
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
9,534
Location
Big Sky Country
An existing hotel is attempting to meet the ADA requirement to install a fixed pool lift at their indoor facility.

I met the staff onsite about the placement of the lifts. The main pool is not a problem but the hot tub pool is. The only place this lift will fit will interfere with the clear path requirement for the required second exit from the pool area.

Are there exceptions to the ADA requirement for exising facilities for situations as this?

Moving the door to a different place along the exterior wall space will not alliviate the problem.
 
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mtlogcabin,

Are you saying that it is technically infeasible to achieve compliance

without spending a lot of money to reconfigure the space / "clear

path" requirements, or something else?

+ = +
 
004_zpsc6d277a9.jpg


Here is the floor plan
 
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From the `10 ADA SAD, Section 202.3.1 - Prohibited Reduction in Access.

"An alteration that decreases or has the effect of decreasing the accessibility

of a building or facility below the requirements for new construction at the

time of the alteration is prohibited."



and

Section 302.3.2 - Extent of Application:

"An alteration of an existing element, space, or area of a building or facility

shall not impose a requirement for accessibility greater than required for new

construction."



and

Section 202.4 - Alterations Affecting Primary Function Areas:

"In addition to the requirements of 202.3, an alteration that affects or could

affect the usability of or access to an area containing a primary function shall

be made so as to ensure that, to the maximum extent feasible, the path of

travel to the altered area, including the rest rooms, telephones, and drinking

fountains serving the altered area, are readily accessible to and usable by

individuals with disabilities, unless such alterations are disproportionate to

the overall alterations in terms of cost and scope as determined under

criteria established by the Attorney General...........In existing transportation

facilities, an area of primary function shall be as defined under regulations

published by the Secretary of the Department of Transportation or the

Attorney General.

EXCEPTION: Residential dwelling units shall not be

required to comply with 202.4.



If I am interpreting this correctly, ...this would be the cost of installing

the ADA compliant pool lift, ...plus an additional 20% of that cost to be

applied to the rest of the "clear path area" alteration.

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mtlogcabin

Are you saying the lift cannot be placed at the "top" (assume north) of the hot tub? Opposite side of the exit door?
 
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Also, ...from `10 ADA SAD, Section 202.3 - Alterations:

"Where existing elements or spaces are altered, each altered element or

space shall comply with the applicable requirements of Chapter 2.

EXCEPTIONS:

1. Unless required by 202.4, where elements or spaces are altered and the

circulation path to the altered element or space is not altered, an accessible

route shall not be required.

2. In alterations, where compliance with applicable requirements is technically

infeasible, the alteration shall comply with the requirements to the maximum

extent feasible.

3. Residential dwelling units not required to be accessible in compliance with

a standard issued pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act or Section

504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended, shall not be required to

comply with 202.3."

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mark handler said:
mtlogcabinAre you saying the lift cannot be placed at the "top" (assume north) of the hot tub? Opposite side of the exit door?
Click to expand...
North or south side it is the same. According to the installation instructions the required clear space around the lift only left 3 inches from the edge of the main pool.

My orginal suggestion was remove the handrail on the north side and fill in across the step area to get the lift away from the main pool. People can access the pool from the south side.
 
mtlogcabin said:
North or south side it is the same. According to the installation instructions the required clear space around the lift only left 3 inches from the edge of the main pool.My orginal suggestion was remove the handrail on the north side and fill in across the step area to get the lift away from the main pool. People can access the pool from the south side.
Click to expand...
No. not the same. top side(north of hot tub) does not block POT to exit

It is technically feasible
 
mark handler said:
No. not the same. top side(north of hot tub) does not block POT to exit It is technically feasible
Click to expand...
I suspect that the technical infeasibility is due to only wanting to install one lift to serve both.
 
What about the close proximaty it puts the wheelchair to the main pool. Not a code issue but possible liability.

Do you think they should modify the North side of the hot tub pool and get the lift away from the main pool?
 
It is truly amazing how often code enforcement people try to find ways to circumvent the access codes, but are bulldogs when it comes to other sections of the code

any excuse, even if the BO allows an exemption to the building code they cannot exempt the ADA or indemnify the hotel or designer from a lawsuit
 
mark handler said:
It is truly amazing how often code enforcement people try to find ways to circumvent the access codes, but are bulldogs when it comes to other sections of the code
Click to expand...
I am not trying to circumvent anything heck I won't even get a permit for this thing. The hotel was just seeking help and I told them they could not place it on the south side near the exit door

I guess there are 3 options

1 Just fill in the hot tub

2 Remove the handrail on the north side and fill in across the step area to get the lift away from the main pool. People can access the pool from the south side

3 Install the lift where it will fit with 3 inches to spare and hope a wheelchair user doesn't fall into the main pool while attempting to use the lift.

I vote for option 2
 
I don't see a hand rail so Based on the plan, there is clearances at the north side of the plan you provided.
 
The hot tub has steps on the north and south side with a handrail in the middle. Not clear in the picture of the floor plan. The east & west sides have seating benches.
 
brudgers said:
I suspect that the technical infeasibility is due to only wanting to install one lift to serve both.
Click to expand...
double check, but I think SAD is against the two sharing a common lift, even if placement is capable of same.

SAD also wants permanent except for exterior/seasonal. This may be a good argument for non permanent, just as long as the attorney thinks they could win in a court case.
 
I have heard of movable lifts and when needed move it to the needed pool / tub

You might check that one
 
movable lifts not permitted. a mobile unit can be moved, trapping a person in the pool.

Advisory 1009.2.7 Operation. Pool lifts must be capable of unassisted operation from both the deck and water levels. This will permit a person to call the pool lift when the pool lift is in the opposite position. It is extremely important for a person who is swimming alone to be able to call the pool lift when it is in the up position so he or she will not be stranded in the water for extended periods of time awaiting assistance. The requirement for a pool lift to be independently operable does not preclude assistance from being provided
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not an Ada person

But if a movable lift is used and meets the criteria for self operation, seems like it is meeting the section

Section does not seem to address movable lifts
 
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