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ADA Table 703.5.5 Visual Character Height - H/C parking sign

Discussion in 'Accessibility' started by Stone Bow Studios, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Stone Bow Studios

    Stone Bow Studios Registered User

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    I am trying to interpret the 703.5.5 table for text height for accessible parking signage. I am working on an ADA study and the custom / a-typical signage has small text - Unless the horizontal distance can be close to the sign. By identifying the text as non-compliant, I need to be able to point to why.

    What horizontal distance should I use? I'm looking at the 21 feet but only because it's listed on the table. The text ht should be in the 40 - 70 inch range above ground & @ 21 feet, the minimum character ht should be 2 1/2 inches. ( The text may end up above the 70 inch range - especially with the Van Accessible sign )

    With a sign mounting ht of 60 inches, I've read a guide that indicates this ht is set in order to allow the sign to be seen even while a car is parked in the space, does this mean that the intended horizontal distance is beyond the length of the parking space? If so, 21 feet would be the minimum and then only where the driver side of the vehicle is on the side of the parking.

    There must be a better guide than picking an arbitrary distance to select a text height.

    Any guidance would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Rob
     
  2. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    Interesting, what if my accessible modified van was parked in the van accessible space, does that mean my sign has to be 14 feet in the air to be seen with my van there? Do I need to place another sign at 60" on the same post when the spot is empty?

    Sorry, I get a little put off at times when 5 % of the population is regulating what 95% has to do in construction......No different than the POTUS mandating a wall................. that has severe flaws and is easily penetrable....
     
  3. Stone Bow Studios

    Stone Bow Studios Registered User

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    Thanks Builder Bob for your vast insight. Lol . Understood

    If there is not a guide for text size, even though that is not the case for other signage, there should be a statement, much like the signs colors not being regulated - only that they are of high contrast.
     
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  4. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    I am surprised there isn't more discussion on this topic since accessibility is always a hot topic on this forum.
     
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  5. Paul Sweet

    Paul Sweet Sawhorse

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    Some states have their own enhancements to signage. Check your state highway dept. standards.
     
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  6. Stone Bow Studios

    Stone Bow Studios Registered User

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    Paul, thanks I will check.
     
  7. BLangley

    BLangley Registered User

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    Over at access-board.gov, Section 703.5.5 says

    "703.5.5 Character Height. Minimum character height shall comply with Table 703.5.5. Viewing distance shall be measured as the horizontal distance between the character and an obstruction preventing further approach towards the sign. Character height shall be based on the uppercase letter “I”."

    For a parking space sign, wouldn't "an obstruction" be a car parked in the space?

    It also looks like the 60 inch height is somewhat specified in 502.6

    "502.6 Identification. Parking space identification signs shall include the International Symbol of Accessibility complying with 703.7.2.1. Signs identifying van parking spaces shall contain the designation “van accessible.” Signs shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) minimum above the finish floor or ground surface measured to the bottom of the sign."
     
  8. Paul Sweet

    Paul Sweet Sawhorse

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    It doesn't make any difference if a car blocks the sign. If a car is in the space nobody else can park there anyway until that car leaves.
     
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  9. CityKin

    CityKin Sawhorse

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    ^ Good point. 21' seems good as parking spaces are about 20' deep
    The 60" height is enforced in my jurisdiction.
     
  10. Stone Bow Studios

    Stone Bow Studios Registered User

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    The 60” is the bottom of the sign - that can easily put the text top line above the 70” if it’s van accessible ... but that’s splitting hairs & im not really at all concerned.

    I’m just surprised there’s not guidance on the distance - or just a set size or variance. It would seem to me that sign manufacturing has solved this. I must admit I’ve never put any thought into it before, I’ve just called out for a ADA compliant sign & shown the typical graphics - the sign maker always did their thing & everyone was happy.

    If the parking place is empty, should I be expected to pull all the way in, in order to read it? ... if I’m driving a 1969 Plymouth & I pull in to the parking place, I’m in the drivers seat at 12 + ft from the sign ... if I’m in a smart car I’m maybe 6ft at the most.

    If I’m excited to read it while driving, then it’s over 18ft - but if I’m in the opposite lane, I’m out of luck - too far to read.

    This brings up another question that I didn’t even consider. The symbol is what people “read”. Do they define the size for that? I’m not sure if they do, but I didn’t check.

    Anyway, I want to thank everyone for this off the wall brain storming session.
     
  11. Stone Bow Studios

    Stone Bow Studios Registered User

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    Ok / not even sure what happened here. ... revise to read “If I’m trying to read it while in the driving lane, then it’s over 18ft” ...
     
  12. Paul Sweet

    Paul Sweet Sawhorse

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    People should understand by now that any space close to a building with a sign with a blue square is an accessible space. They will see the sign at some point as they pull into the space and realize that they shouldn't be in that space unless they have handicap plates or hang tag.
     
  13. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    It is funny to me that striping color, accessible symbol in parking spot, etc are all referenced in these discussions, However, unless the locals or state has adopted these, the only requirement is for an accessible sign as outlined in ICC ANSI A117.1 -2017ed Section 502.7 identification.

    It does make for an interesting trial if the signage (required) is missing but it is painted blue, with blue lines, and has a accessible symbol painted on the parking space.
     
  14. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    I am not handicapped. A local Lowes has accessible spaces with signs and blue lines and then there are spaces with just blue lines near the contractors doors that I use all the time.
     

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