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ADA v. IBC

imhotep

imhotep

Silver Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
219
Location
Washington State
DOJ's 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design provides a General Exception (203.7) for Detention and Correction Facilities.

2009 IBC is adopted. The prison is a state institution. The prison facility under consideration is a training shop with classrooms, restrooms, etc.. IBC contains no exception for Detention and Correction Facilities similar to the one in the DOJ's Standards.

The specific question is whether or not two drinking fountains (high-low) are required?

Under 2009 IBC 107.2.1 Information on construction documents. Construction documents shall be dimensioned and drawn upon suitable material. Electronic media documents are permitted to be submitted when approved by the building official. Construction documents shall be of sufficient clarity to indicate the location, nature and extent of the work proposed and show in detail that it will conform to the provisions of this code and relevant laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, as determined by the building official.

Are the 2010 ADA Standards considered relevant to application of the IBC?
 
steveray said:
ADA does not apply to private clubs either, but the building code does.....it will be accessible....
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Which general exception exempts private clubs? I see that water slides are exempt, but 'private clubs'?
 
I would have to look more, or wait for someone smarter than me....but....

III-1.6000 Private clubs. The obligations of title III do not apply to any "private club. " An entity is a private club for purposes of the ADA if it is a private club under title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin by public accommodations.

Courts have been most inclined to find private club status in cases where --

1) Members exercise a high degree of control over club operations.

2) The membership selection process is highly selective.

3) Substantial membership fees are charged.

4) The entity is operated on a nonprofit basis.

5) The club was not founded specifically to avoid compliance with Federal civil rights laws.
 
The specific question is whether or not two drinking fountains (high-low) are required? Yes two drinking fountains are required



Under 2009 IBC 107.2.1 Information on construction documents. Construction documents shall be dimensioned and drawn upon suitable material. Electronic media documents are permitted to be submitted when approved by the building official. Construction documents shall be of sufficient clarity to indicate the location, nature and extent of the work proposed and show in detail that it will conform to the provisions of this code and relevant laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, as determined by the building official.

You have to conform to the IBC first

Are the 2010 ADA Standards considered relevant to application of the IBC?

No they are not relevant unless there is a local or state law requiring the building official to enforce them. The BO can not pick or choose what state or federal laws, rules or regulations he/she wants to see as part of a project design.

Now they are relevant to the project for the designer to incorporate them into the design but the design cannot lessen the IBC requirements. Hence the IBC requires the high/low drinkin fountains to meet code they need to be installed
 
As a code enforement agency, you are obligated to enforce the building code, including Chapter 11 and reference standard ICC A117.1. Unless the jurisdiction has specifically adopted and assumed the role of enforcement of the the ADA, they have no obligation to enforce it.

As a designer, youa re obligated to design in a manner to satisfy all relavent codes, standards, etc. which would include the ADA.

The building owner is obligated to be sure that their facility is fully compliant with all relavent codes, standards, regulations, etc.
 
in agreement with mt., unless there is an amendment to the AHJ's adoption of the IBC, you shouldn't be able to be less restrictive.
 
Sorry...should have said it in post 3....hi-lo fountain per IBC and ANSI 117.....required...... regardless of ADA....which I do not enforce or design to...
 
ADA=civil rights law

IBC=building code

I took the Texas Accessibility Standards class last week. That's the way it was explained in a nutshell. Apparently, anybody can sue anybody over a civil rights violation. Not so with building codes. We build to the adopted codes, not the ADA per se. I'll have to admit that it's still confusing to me how all this stuff is supposed to mesh.

BS
 
It's not supposed to mesh.

What is supposed to happen is that architectural barriers are removed, and that new construction does not create them.

If ADA allowed for damages, those things would have occurred a decade ago.
 
mtlogcabin said:
The specific question is whether or not two drinking fountains (high-low) are required? Yes two drinking fountains are required

Under 2009 IBC 107.2.1 Information on construction documents. Construction documents shall be dimensioned and drawn upon suitable material. Electronic media documents are permitted to be submitted when approved by the building official. Construction documents shall be of sufficient clarity to indicate the location, nature and extent of the work proposed and show in detail that it will conform to the provisions of this code and relevant laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, as determined by the building official.

You have to conform to the IBC first

Are the 2010 ADA Standards considered relevant to application of the IBC?

No they are not relevant unless there is a local or state law requiring the building official to enforce them. The BO can not pick or choose what state or federal laws, rules or regulations he/she wants to see as part of a project design.

Now they are relevant to the project for the designer to incorporate them into the design but the design cannot lessen the IBC requirements. Hence the IBC requires the high/low drinkin fountains to meet code they need to be installed
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Discover something new every day. 2009 IBC

1103.2 General exceptions. Sites, buildings, structures, facilities, elements and spaces shall be exempt from this chapter to the extent specified in this section.

1103.2.14 Detention and correctional facilities. In detention and correctional facilities, common use areas that are used only by inmates or detainees and security personnel, and that do not serve holding cells or housing cells required to be accessible, are not required to be accessible or to be served by an accessible route.
 
Discover something new every day. 2009 IBC
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So did I

Thank You

The prison is a state institution. The prison facility under consideration is a training shop with classrooms, restrooms, etc..
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I would think the training shop and classrooms would still have to be accessible. Instructors are not usually security personnel.
 
mtlogcabin said:
I would think the training shop and classrooms would still have to be accessible. Instructors are not usually security personnel.
Click to expand...
5-10 for armed robbery?
 
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