ADA vs. ANSI for assembly seating

[meg]

I have an existing historic theater that we're renovating. We're removing all of the seating and have stepped platforms. The theater has an occupancy of 1,100 so according to A117.1 802.1 we will need 4 spaces and ADA will require 9 spaces. The city only requires that we comply with A117.1. If we designate 9 spaces, can non-disable people utilize the unused spaces. For example they have 9 ticket available but only 4 are purchased for a show and the other 5 tickets and spaces be used by others? Do we even count it based on occupancy since it calls for seating?

 

[tbz]

Bill will have a better explanation than I, but ADA is Federal Law and ANSI A117.1 is the local, as thus 9 is required.

It has been some years since I worked on seating arrangements in theatres, but back in 2004 they built removable seating platforms and isle railings at Radio City, not sure it is valid, but they had I believe double the areas ability throughout the various areas, that if they held for ADA compliant seating. If it didn't sell by a certain date they converted it to standard seating, if it sold they converted it to ADA compliant. So they had Mutiple areas, over and above the minimum allowing a choice. Once the minimum requirement was met, they left the balance go either way on first come first serve. Been 18 years a little foggy, not sure how that works, but Bill will chime in at some point.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Bill is right. It's up to the owner on how to seat people.

 

[bill1952]

Your confusing the number of wheelchair space locations for dispersion with number of spaces, which is in IBC, not ANSI. Pretty sure (in an airport, not my desk) the number of spaces is same (Texas is very slightly different, as is Illinois). 9 spaces in 4 different locations. You can't have them all in same row got instance. There are sometimes valid reasons to vary in existing construction IMHO. If you don't have a professional theatre consultant on the design team, and you'd like a private no-cost quick review, contact me.

ps: table 1108.2.2.1 in 2018 IBC but for 1100 seats, it's 10 spaces. ADAAG 2009 table 221.2.1.1 is identical to IBC. 10 spaces for 951 to 1100 seats. I always include the spaces in that.

And you can always put a removeable chair in the wheelchair space.

 

[ADAguy]

again ADA trumps (sorry) ANSI. Why can't ANSI align with ADA minimums?

 

[bill1952]

I'm on the ANSI committee and have consulted with the Access Board. I believe they agree. Could you point out where they are not the same?

 

[Paul Sweet]

"Why can't ANSI align with ADA minimums?"

95% of ADASAD and ANSI are the same. ADASAD contains a few operational items that are not in the scope of building codes. ANSI is actually stricter than ADA in a few cases, such as vertical grab bars, toilet stall sizes.

 

[Blazer]

If you want some help with your wheelchair space calculation. 1100-500 = 600. 600/150 = 4. When you add 4 to 6 you get 10 and not 9. (Refer to Table 221.2.1.1 of ADA standards). This is the same table as Table 1108.2.2.1 of 2018 IBC.

Other things to consider for wheelchair spaces in a fixed-seating assembly:

• You need 10 campion seats for 10 wheelchair spaces.
• Spaces must be dispersed to provide choices for seating locations and different viewing angles.
  • Vertical dispersion (Not all on same level if theater has accessible balcony or mezzanine. Not all at same height or front-to-back from screen)
  • Horizontal dispersion (Not all on the end of row)
• 5% or no less than one of number of aisle seats must be designated aisle seats closest to accessible route. (removable, folding or retractable arm rest)

ADA
§36.405 Alterations: Historic preservation (if you are eligible for listing in the National Register of Historic Places).
If it is technically infeasible to provide access without destroying historical significance alternative methods of access can be provided.
§36.406 (f) (3)
... when wheelchair spaces and companion seats are not required to accommodate persons eligible for those spaces and seats, individual, removable seats may be placed in those spaces.
§36.406 (f) (4)
In stadium style movie theaters, wheelchair spaces and companion seats are located on a riser or cross-aisle in the stadium section that satisfies one of the following criteria.

(i) it is located in the rear 60% of the seats provided; or ​

(ii) located within the area of auditorium in which the vertical viewing angles (as measured to top of screen) are from the 40th to the 100th percentile of vertical viewing angles for all seats as ranked from the seats in the first row (1st percentile) to seats in the back row (100th percentile). ​

 

[bill1952]

Shoulder alignment, equivalent sightlines including over standing spectators if expected to stand (usually sports, and not the standing ovation at the end of a play - though not clear), within center 50% of rows, 2 AMOE or assembly CPET, more front if principally live events versus more rearward if principally projection, among more considerations. The "integrated" requirement is toughest because the large turning space and accessible route necessarily separates spaces. Very hard for a person in a wheel chair space to turn and talk to people in front and behind as people do in a performing arts theatre.