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All or none need to be up to code?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SOG NJ
  • Start date Start date
51yAaOPWXZL._AC_US218_.jpg

just put some plants on it and call it a plant stand.
 
I live in New Jersey. When I went house hunting in 2012, all the homes in the area I was looking in was the same model, built in 1950, all small 1000 sq ft raised ranches 3bd 1 bath, originally with unfinished basement and attic, with 28 inch width permanent stairs to basement where utilities were located, and pull down ladder to attic. Most houses we saw had finished basements partially or fully with a bathroom, some even with bedrooms and kitchens. Some houses had installed permanent stairs to the attic, mostly stairs were put through the hallway closet, so they were only 25.5 inches wide, those that installed stairs in the living room had wider stairs. Such attics were sheet-rocked and carpeted but as one large space, no walls, a few had a half toilet or a toilet with stand-in shower. So when we bought a home here, with unfinished attic and pull down stairs, we put a 25.5 inch staircase through the hallway closet, so we could use it as an active storage for our supplies and other stuff. We didnt sheetrock the attic though. Are we in trouble ? Also I guess that we cannot apply for a permit now for an office and bathroom in the attic with this staircase.

Read more: https://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/3489250-attic-office-conversion-question.html
 
Sugee said:
I live in New Jersey. When I went house hunting in 2012, all the homes in the area I was looking in was the same model, built in 1950, all small 1000 sq ft raised ranches 3bd 1 bath, originally with unfinished basement and attic, with 28 inch width permanent stairs to basement where utilities were located, and pull down ladder to attic. Most houses we saw had finished basements partially or fully with a bathroom, some even with bedrooms and kitchens. Some houses had installed permanent stairs to the attic, mostly stairs were put through the hallway closet, so they were only 25.5 inches wide, those that installed stairs in the living room had wider stairs. Such attics were sheet-rocked and carpeted but as one large space, no walls, a few had a half toilet or a toilet with stand-in shower. So when we bought a home here, with unfinished attic and pull down stairs, we put a 25.5 inch staircase through the hallway closet, so we could use it as an active storage for our supplies and other stuff. We didnt sheetrock the attic though. Are we in trouble ? Also I guess that we cannot apply for a permit now for an office and bathroom in the attic with this staircase.

Read more: https://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/3489250-attic-office-conversion-question.html
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I gather that you installed this stair without permit. Are you in trouble? Not until you get caught -- but you should expect it to be a problem if you ever attempt to sell the house.

As for converting to attic to any use other than occasional storage -- from the New Jersey 1- and 2-gamily residential code:

R311.7.1 Width
Stairways shall be not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in clear width at all points above the permitted handrail height and below the required headroom height. The clear width of stairways at and below the handrail height, including treads and landings, shall be not less than 311/2 inches (787 mm) where a handrail is installed on one side and 27 inches (698 mm) where handrails are installed on both sides.
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You can always apply for a permit to finish the attic with a 25-1/2" wide stair, but don't expect the building official to approve it.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
I gather that you installed this stair without permit. Are you in trouble? Not until you get caught -- but you should expect it to be a problem if you ever attempt to sell the house.

As for converting to attic to any use other than occasional storage -- from the New Jersey 1- and 2-gamily residential code:



You can always apply for a permit to finish the attic with a 25-1/2" wide stair, but don't expect the building official to approve it.
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Thank you. Yes, without permit, since we werent bringing down any walls, just replacing the pull down with stairs by using 2 closet spaces. And since we had seen it in so many houses. One house right behind us sold in 2018 with same 25.5 wide stairs, attic finished with half bath. And they said they had just done the work just the previous year. So I asked the township office, citing the house behind, if I could do something like them, and they insisted it must have been done 30 years ago, but later they just said "talk to an architect".
 
Sugee said:
Thank you so much, mind rests a little.
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You got some nerve burning your neighbor with the building dept. You found out that they really aren’t interested. Chances are good that a permit would be throwing money away.
 
ICE said:
You got some nerve burning your neighbor with the building dept. You found out that they really aren’t interested. Chances are good that a permit would be throwing money away.
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The house was sold in 2018. The old owners have sold the house and gone. The house pics including the stairs and finished attic were all in real estate sites (they are still there). Also I mentioned it now, 6 years after the sale. I didnt ask the old owners if they pulled a permit, but I think they did, the RE agent at the open house said so. Anyway the house must have been inspected by township at the time of sale. So I dont know what the nerve and burning is all about.
 
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ICE said:
I always cringe when I see that. The odds are so slim of there being a problem that I think it is fear mongering.
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The odds aren't slim where I work. Title searchers around here are paranoid about unpermitted work. We get so many FOI requests looking for the entire permit and inspection history of existing houses that we had to hire a third administrative assistant, whose primary (and virtually only) responsibility is searching out those old permits in response to FOI requests.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
Why? Is that a New Jersey requirement? My state doesn't require the building official to inspect existing houses any time they are sold.
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Yes. When we bought ours in 2012, they inspected the house and found that the back porch was not done with permit, the township didnt know about it. They revised house assessment and taxes for us. I met the township tax assessor at that time. He said he also looks at all the real estate ads to see what is being advertised and whether all the improvements are on record and permitted.
 
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Sugee said:
Yes. When we bought ours in 2012, they inspected the house and found that the back porch was not done with permit, the township didnt know about it. They revised house assessment and taxes for us. I met the township tax assessor at that time. He said he also looks at all the real estate ads to see what is being advertised and whether all the improvements are on record and permitted.
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Who inspected your house? The Building Department, or the Tax Assessor?
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
Who inspected your house? The Building Department, or the Tax Assessor?
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It is common for a real estate inspector to offer a permit research service at an added cost. Some may include it.

As a municipality, we get lien searches regularly for the Building Department and Code Compliance. Our parcel records report prints out all BD, P&Z and CC information about the parcel in question which includes all permits.
 
jar546 said:
It is common for a real estate inspector to offer a permit research service at an added cost. Some may include it.

As a municipality, we get lien searches regularly for the Building Department and Code Compliance. Our parcel records report prints out all BD, P&Z and CC information about the parcel in question which includes all permits.
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We didnt know to ask for the permit search. But I called the township for any open permits, there was one (second bathroom), the owners agreed to fix it within 1 month of closing and they did. But I didnt think to ask about the permit for the back porch. But it got approved, no issue. Guess they were happy to get it in for additional tax.
 
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Gregg Harris said:
If attic is uninhabitable there are no staircase requirements. If habitable it requires both stairs and a window for egress.
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About 8 years ago we replaced our ancient furnace under a NJ energy scheme, that mandated extra insulation, which we put under the roof in the attic. Our HVAC contractor advised us to put egress windows before insulation which was closed cell foam. He said "just in case we ever wanted to finish it". The stairs is our only issue now. Perhaps best to leave the attic as storage, and if at all build an extension to the house for the office and bathroom.
 
Sugee said:
So I dont know what the nerve and burning is all about.
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Well there's this: So I asked the township office, citing the house behind,

That was an indication of two possibilities. 1. There was no permit. 2. There was a permit and the result violates code. I would not even acknowledge having a neighbor in front of a building official.

I suppose that as a building inspector, I have a jaded opinion of someone mentioning a neighbor; it has seldom been for an innocent motive.

Many have brought up the practice of searching building records during a property sale. Title companies, tax authorities, realtors etc. That almost never happens here.... in fact it is so rare that I can remove the almost and say that it never happens. The sale of so many properties would be upended that nobody wants to know. More than half of all construction work is done without a permit.
 
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