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Another Wood-Burning Pizza Oven

C

cballinger

Bronze Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
64
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I don't post much, and I know this question has been posed before, but I didn't find the answer I'm looking for on those threads and wanted to start a new discussion. 2012 IMC adopted. The age old question - Type I hood required over wood-burning pizza oven? Here are the specs and installation manual for my particular case:

http://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/napoli/napoli120_dims.pdf

http://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/commercial_install.pdf

Listed to UL737 and UL2162. Manufacturer allows EITHER a UL103 Type HT listed chimney OR a Type I hood. IMC Section 507.2 requires a Type I hood for "commercial cooking appliances". Working backwards from the listings, I see the requirement in 917 for commercial cooking appliances to be listed in accordance with UL 2162. I also see in Section 905 the requirement for fireplace stoves to be listed in accordance with UL737. So this is listed as a fireplace stove and as a commercial cooking appliance. It would also be my understanding that the Direct Vent method would comply with the requirement for UL737 for fireplace stoves, and the Type I hood would comply with the requirements in UL2162 for commercial cooking appliances.

If this can be either/or, is there anything in the IMC that says I can't cook pizza in a fireplace stove? If not, then I'm inclined to say they comply with the requirements and don't need to install a Type I hood.
 
If the Ahj will allow direct vent than go for it

Ventilation

Direct Connect using a UL103 chimney or grease duct vent; or Type 1 Hood with grease duct vent

There are two venting options for the Modena2G Series ovens. These methods are Direct Connection of a Grease Duct or UL103 Type HT listed chimney (Direct Venting) and a Type 1 Exhaust Hood installed according to NFPA 96 and the UMC with Grease Duct venting.

VERY IMPORTANT! SUBMIT YOUR VENTING PLANS TO LOCAL CODE AUTHORITIES BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH INSTALLATION.

Most cities accept the U.L. listed Direct Connection method, however a few cities will require the use of a Type I grease hood over the oven opening and vent. Check with your local building department to determine which method or methods are acceptable.

Alternative method if needed
 
I can't find anything that prohibits cooking in a fireplace stove. Want to make sure I'm not missing something before I present the facts to the Commission.
 
Not sure your question

It is a semi open oven like a chain pizza oven or salamander

Wood or charcoal fuel stoves are allowed in a kitchen

Just show the how the manufacture suggests ventilation and push for the direct vent

I have seen gas fired enclosed ovens direct vented
 
cda said:
Not sure your questionIt is a semi open oven like a chain pizza oven or salamander

Wood or charcoal fuel stoves are allowed in a kitchen

Just show the how the manufacture suggests ventilation and push for the direct vent

I have seen gas fired enclosed ovens direct vented
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Easier said than done. If I could just show the manufacturer's recommendations and get them to follow either/or, that would be nice. But it's not that easy here. And where the code conflicts, the more stringent applies. They want to require Type I Hood because they are calling it a commercial cooking appliance. 507.2 requires a hood over commercial cooking appliances. I'm saying if direct vented, it's not a commercial cooking appliance as it meets the requirements for a fireplace stove instead, and therefore does not need a hood. Am I correct? OR is a fireplace stove ALSO a commercial cooking appliance if you use it to cook?

202 definition of Fireplace Stove: " A free-standing chimney-connected solid-fuel-burning heater, designed to be operated with the fire chamber doors in either the open or closed position."

202 definition of Commercial Cooking Appliances: "Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment for heating or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam, fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed through a local exhaust ventilation system...."

So, if a fireplace stove is used in a commercial food service establishment to cook food, does it become a commercial cooking appliance? If that's the case, then the IMC always requires a hood over this, so the manufacturer's option to direct vent becomes null (unless you aren't using it to cook food, but who buys a pizza oven without intent to cook pizzas in it?).
 
I take it this is going inside and inside a restaurant ??

If so I would call it commercial equipment.

No matter what you call it, would go with alternate method and direct vent.

The Ahj is not gaining anything,

I would not require a extinguishing system to be pointed into oven area, even though I have seen it done.

Protecting behind the filters and duct does not get you much
 
Besides the wood burning oven has to have its own ventilation and cannot share.
 
507.2.1 Type I hoods.

Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.

EXTRA-HEAVY-DUTY COOKING APPLIANCE. Extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances include appliances utilizing solid fuel such as wood, charcoal, briquettes, and mesquite to provide all or part of the heat source for cooking.

A Type I hood does more than remove grease and odors it also requires a fire suppression system. The exhaust for the wood burning appliance is a separate function
 
I would just like to say there should be no codes governing wood fired pizza.

The cooking of wood fired pizza should be free from tyranny, and allowed to be expressed unrestricted.

That's my position on that. Carry on.

Brent.

P. s. BBQ as well.
 
mtlogcabin said:
507.2.1 Type I hoods.Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.

EXTRA-HEAVY-DUTY COOKING APPLIANCE. Extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances include appliances utilizing solid fuel such as wood, charcoal, briquettes, and mesquite to provide all or part of the heat source for cooking.

A Type I hood does more than remove grease and odors it also requires a fire suppression system. The exhaust for the wood burning appliance is a separate function
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cballinger, based on your posts, you have the answers that you seek, you are just having difficulty accepting them. In my jurisdiction (after many hours of research into this topic), a Type I hood is required over this commercial cooking appliance. If all else fails and I have to quote other code sections, try IMC 304.2. The code over rules the manufacturer's installation instructions. Or, as cda states, you can convince the AHJ otherwise :)
 
Where does the code say that I have to classify this as a commercial cooking appliance? IMC only requires Type I hood over commercial cooking appliances. There is nothing that states that I can't cook in a fireplace stove. Commercial cooking appliances and fireplace stoves are separate appliances with separate specific requirements in Chapter 9.

Further evidence to suggest this complies:

UL 737 listing (required for fireplace stove per IMC Sec. 905) refers you to NFPA 96

NFPA 96, Chapter 14 for Solid Fuel Cooking Operations, Section 14.4, Exhaust for Solid Fuel Cooking, does not require a hood, but if no hood provided then it must have a duct complying with Chapter 7. Section 14.7, Fire-Extinguishing Equipment for Solid Fuel Cooking only requires fire-extinguishing for cooking appliances that produce grease-laden vapors.

So basically, you can cook food in a UL 737 fireplace stove without a hood and fire suppression system as long as there are no grease-laden vapors. No raw meats being cooked here, so it complies. We'll see if I can convince the Building Commission of same.
 
cballinger said:
Where does the code say that I have to classify this as a commercial cooking appliance? IMC only requires Type I hood over commercial cooking appliances. There is nothing that states that I can't cook in a fireplace stove. Commercial cooking appliances and fireplace stoves are separate appliances with separate specific requirements in Chapter 9. Further evidence to suggest this complies:

UL 737 listing (required for fireplace stove per IMC Sec. 905) refers you to NFPA 96

NFPA 96, Chapter 14 for Solid Fuel Cooking Operations, Section 14.4, Exhaust for Solid Fuel Cooking, does not require a hood, but if no hood provided then it must have a duct complying with Chapter 7. Section 14.7, Fire-Extinguishing Equipment for Solid Fuel Cooking only requires fire-extinguishing for cooking appliances that produce grease-laden vapors.

So basically, you can cook food in a UL 737 fireplace stove without a hood and fire suppression system as long as there are no grease-laden vapors. No raw meats being cooked here, so it complies. We'll see if I can convince the Building Commission of same.
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Ok, when it goes in a restaurant or business, it is commercial, even though

Just like I will argue that a home cooking stove can be in a restaurant, and people tell me no.
 
[h=2]UL 2162[/h][h=1]Standard for Commercial Wood-Fired Baking Ovens - Refractory Type[/h]

  • SCOPE
  • TABLE OF CONTENTS
1.1 These requirements apply to commercial wood-fired ovens intended for use by commercial establishments for the purpose of cooking or baking food products utilizing solid wood fuel. These ovens utilize as their primary enclosure, refractory materials.

1.2 For the purposes of this standard:

a) It is anticipated the ovens described in 1.1 will be vented by an exhaust hood as covered by the Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations, NFPA 96, or an exhaust hood tested for compliance with the requirements in the Standard for Exhaust Hoods for Commercial Cooking Equipment, UL 710.

And from the installation instructions

b) Minimum exhaust hood size including minimum height, depth, and length of the hood as well as minimum hood overhangs, minimum exhaust air flows, and maximum hood height above the oven shall be established as part of the investigation.

c) The seismic stability of the oven and support system is not anticipated in this document.

1.3 The wood-fired baking ovens as covered by these requirements are intended for installation in accordance with the National Electrical Code, NFPA 70, and other codes such as the International Mechanical Code and the Uniform Mechanical Code. The exhaust hoods referenced in these requirements are intended for installation in accordance with the Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations, NFPA 96.

There are two venting options for the Modena2G Seriesovens. These methods are Direct Connection of a GreaseDuct or UL103 Type HT listed chimney (Direct Venting)and a Type 1 Exhaust Hood installed according to NFPA96 and the UMC with Grease Duct venting.VERY IMPORTANT! SUBMIT YOUR VENTING PLANSTO LOCAL CODE AUTHORITIES BEFOREPROCEEDING WITH INSTALLATION.Most cities accept the U.L. listed Direct Connectionmethod, however a few cities will require the use of a TypeI grease hood over the oven opening and vent. Check withyour local building department to determine which methodor methods are acceptab

 
cballinger said:
Where does the code say that I have to classify this as a commercial cooking appliance? IMC only requires Type I hood over commercial cooking appliances. There is nothing that states that I can't cook in a fireplace stove. Commercial cooking appliances and fireplace stoves are separate appliances with separate specific requirements in Chapter 9. Further evidence to suggest this complies:

UL 737 listing (required for fireplace stove per IMC Sec. 905) refers you to NFPA 96

NFPA 96, Chapter 14 for Solid Fuel Cooking Operations, Section 14.4, Exhaust for Solid Fuel Cooking, does not require a hood, but if no hood provided then it must have a duct complying with Chapter 7. Section 14.7, Fire-Extinguishing Equipment for Solid Fuel Cooking only requires fire-extinguishing for cooking appliances that produce grease-laden vapors.

So basically, you can cook food in a UL 737 fireplace stove without a hood and fire suppression system as long as there are no grease-laden vapors. No raw meats being cooked here, so it complies. We'll see if I can convince the Building Commission of same.
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this is going in a restaurant??
 
only requires fire-extinguishing for cooking appliances that produce grease-laden vapors.
Click to expand...
Last cheese pizza I had was full of greaseIt is an extra heavy duty cooking appliance that requires a Type I hood with a suppression system even if you only bake cakes.
 
NFPA 96, Chapter 14 for Solid Fuel Cooking Operations, Section 14.4, Exhaust for Solid Fuel Cooking, does not require a hood, but if no hood provided then it must have a duct complying with Chapter 7. Section 14.7, Fire-Extinguishing Equipment for Solid Fuel Cooking only requires fire-extinguishing for cooking appliances that produce grease-laden vapors.
Click to expand...
The code overrides the NFPA 96 standard referenced by the manufacturer

509.1 Where required.

Commercial cooking appliances required by Section 507.2.1 to have a Type I hood shall be provided with an approved automatic fire suppression system complying with the International Building Code and the International Fire Code.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Last cheese pizza I had was full of greaseIt is an extra heavy duty cooking appliance that requires a Type I hood with a suppression system even if you only bake cakes.
Click to expand...
So what are you going to nozzle, behind the filters, the exhaust duct, inside the oven?
 
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