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Another Wood-Burning Pizza Oven

cda said:
So what are you going to nozzle, behind the filters, the exhaust duct, inside the oven?
Wait till you see the design on the shunt to shut off the wood!

904.11.2 System interconnection. The actuation of the fire suppression system shall automatically shut down the fuel or electrical power supply to the cooking equipment. The fuel and electrical supply reset shall be manual. [F]
 
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cda said:
Just like I will argue that a home cooking stove can be in a restaurant, and people tell me no.
The difference being, the code separately regulates domestic cooking appliances used for a commercial purpose. Section 507.2.3 requires a hood over domestic cooking appliances. Nowhere in Section 507 does it say I have to provide a hood over a fireplace stove.
 
mtlogcabin said:
[h=2]UL 2162[/h][h=1]Standard for Commercial Wood-Fired Baking Ovens - Refractory Type[/h]
  • SCOPE
  • TABLE OF CONTENTS
1.1 These requirements apply to commercial wood-fired ovens intended for use by commercial establishments for the purpose of cooking or baking food products utilizing solid wood fuel. These ovens utilize as their primary enclosure, refractory materials.

1.2 For the purposes of this standard:

a) It is anticipated the ovens described in 1.1 will be vented by an exhaust hood as covered by the Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations, NFPA 96, or an exhaust hood tested for compliance with the requirements in the Standard for Exhaust Hoods for Commercial Cooking Equipment, UL 710.

And from the installation instructions

b) Minimum exhaust hood size including minimum height, depth, and length of the hood as well as minimum hood overhangs, minimum exhaust air flows, and maximum hood height above the oven shall be established as part of the investigation.

c) The seismic stability of the oven and support system is not anticipated in this document.

1.3 The wood-fired baking ovens as covered by these requirements are intended for installation in accordance with the National Electrical Code, NFPA 70, and other codes such as the International Mechanical Code and the Uniform Mechanical Code. The exhaust hoods referenced in these requirements are intended for installation in accordance with the Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations, NFPA 96.

There are two venting options for the Modena2G Seriesovens. These methods are Direct Connection of a GreaseDuct or UL103 Type HT listed chimney (Direct Venting)and a Type 1 Exhaust Hood installed according to NFPA96 and the UMC with Grease Duct venting.VERY IMPORTANT! SUBMIT YOUR VENTING PLANSTO LOCAL CODE AUTHORITIES BEFOREPROCEEDING WITH INSTALLATION.Most cities accept the U.L. listed Direct Connectionmethod, however a few cities will require the use of a TypeI grease hood over the oven opening and vent. Check withyour local building department to determine which methodor methods are acceptab

"Fireplace stoves" are regulated separately from "commercial cooking appliances". Section 905 does not require listing per UL2162. Fireplace stoves have to be listed per UL737. It just happens to be the case that this product is listed to both.
 
mtlogcabin said:
The code overrides the NFPA 96 standard referenced by the manufacturer 509.1 Where required.

Commercial cooking appliances required by Section 507.2.1 to have a Type I hood shall be provided with an approved automatic fire suppression system complying with the International Building Code and the International Fire Code.
Again, this is a "fireplace stove" separately regulated from "commercial cooking appliances". Section 509.1 does not apply to "fireplace stoves".
 
Let's forget for a moment that this particular product happens to be also listed to UL 2162. Say I have a "fireplace stove" only listed to UL 737. The requirements of the listing are that if used for cooking that puts off grease-laden vapors, it has to have a grease duct and fire suppression system. Let's say they aren't cooking greasy foods (btw, in Indiana, this would be the cooking of "raw fatty proteins". We even added an exception to 507.2.1 for conveyor type pizza ovens where no "raw fatty proteins" are cooked (so no hot wings, no raw meats, only pre-cooked meats on your pizza)). Where does it say in IMC that I cannot use this fireplace stove to cook these foods, and in a commercial kitchen? It doesn't. Section 905 for "fireplace stoves" only states it has to comply with UL 737 and there is no requirement for a hood over "fireplace stoves" in Section 507.
 
It is going to be up to the ahj , where installed.

I would accept direct vent.

It is just a matter will that ahj accept it.

If need be request it be an alternative method::

105.2 Alternative materials, methods, equipment and appliances. The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any such alternative has been approved. An alternative material or method of construction shall be approved where the code official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the equivalent of that prescribed in this code in quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety.
 
901.2 General. The requirements of this chapter shall apply to the mechanical equipment and appliances regulated by this chapter, in addition to the other requirements of this code.
 
steveray said:
Wait till you see the design on the shunt to shut off the wood!904.11.2 System interconnection. The actuation of the fire suppression system shall automatically shut down the fuel or electrical power supply to the cooking equipment. The fuel and electrical supply reset shall be manual. [F]
The mechanical code defines fuel as gas or oil. Wood is not included
 
cda said:
It is going to be up to the ahj , where installed.I would accept direct vent.

It is just a matter will that ahj accept it.

If need be request it be an alternative method::

105.2 Alternative materials, methods, equipment and appliances. The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any such alternative has been approved. An alternative material or method of construction shall be approved where the code official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the equivalent of that prescribed in this code in quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety.
Yes, our lovely State deletes Chapter 1 and refers us to a different set of administrative rules, which for alternative materials and methods states:

"The division may, in the review of an application for a design release, consider as evidence of compliance with the rules

adopted by the commission any evaluation report that contains limitations, conditions, or standards for alternative materials,

method of construction, or design procedures and is published by an independent, nationally recognized testing laboratory that is

accredited by the American Association for Laboratory Accreditation or any one (1) of the following...."(list of nationally recognized institutes and councils)

Now I just need to find an evaluation report on the issue that states the direct vent system on this type of appliance will provide equal alternative to a Type I hood with fire suppression. No luck yet.
 
FIREPLACE STOVE. A free-standing chimney-connected solid-fuel-burning heater, designed to be operated with the fire chamber doors in either the open or closed position.

When you start using your heater as a cooking appliance then the other code section are applicable to your cooking appliance

COOKING APPLIANCE. See “Commercial cooking appliances.”

COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment for heating or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam, fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed through a local exhaust ventilation system. Such appliances include deep fat fryers; upright broilers; griddles; broilers; steam-jacketed kettles; hot-top ranges; under-fired broilers (charbroilers); ovens; barbecues; rotisseries; and similar appliances. For the purpose of this definition, a food service establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof used for the preparation and serving of food.
 
mtlogcabin said:
The mechanical code defines fuel as gas or oil. Wood is not included
It has definitions for fuel gas and fuel oil....It do not think it is limited to those or defines fuel (at least on quick look)...I have had the same discussion with low water cutoffs on wood fired boilers....But I do agree that once you cook in it, it is a cooking appliance.
 
SOLID FUEL (COOKING APPLICATIONS). Applicable to commercial food service operations only, solid fuel is any bulk material such as hardwood, mesquite, charcoal or briquettes that is combusted to produce heat for cooking operations.
 
If listed appliance install and protect per listing. If built like a fireplace with refractory brick and masonry chimney as a woodburner a grease fire would still be contained and no further protection needed
 
Thought I'd post an update. I filed for a variance. The Commission ruled in this case no variance is required as it complies with the code (listed as a fireplace stove, meets the listing requirements, and installed per manufacturer instructions with direct vent system without Type I hood).
 
Just a dumb question...... but wouldn't the ventilation fan above the wood fires stove screw up the purpose of the chimney for venting the firebox in the first place. NFPA has several standards for wood buring cooking equipment and appears to address this issue where as the IMC in vague. Use IMC [A] 102.9 Requirements not covered by this code.

Requirements necessary for the strength, stability or proper operation of an existing or proposed mechanical system, or for the public safety, health and general welfare, not specifically covered by this code, shall be determined by the code official.

The NFPA standard is a national standard and provides good guidance for installation and use of this type of cooking arrangements........
 
Just a dumb question...... but wouldn't the ventilation fan above the wood fires stove screw up the purpose of the chimney for venting the firebox in the first place. NFPA has several standards for wood buring cooking equipment and appears to address this issue where as the IMC in vague. Use IMC [A] 102.9 Requirements not covered by this code. Requirements necessary for the strength, stability or proper operation of an existing or proposed mechanical system, or for the public safety, health and general welfare, not specifically covered by this code, shall be determined by the code official.

The NFPA standard is a national standard and provides good guidance for installation and use of this type of cooking arrangements........
Well some AHJ's allow direct venting of wood burning pizza ovens::

http://mainewoodheat.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rizzuto-1-of-1.jpg
 
From the International Fire Codes - Look at the frequency of visual inspections required compared to other means of cooking operations.

TABLE 609.3.3.1 COMMERCIAL COOKING SYSTEM INSPECTION FREQUENCY

TYPE OF COOKING OPERATIONSFREQUENCY OF

INSPECTION
High-volume cooking operations such as 24-hour cooking, charbroiling or wok cooking3 months
Low-volume cooking operations such as places of religious worship, seasonal businesses and senior centers12 months
Cooking operations utilizing solid fuel-burning cooking appliances1 month
All other cooking operations6 months

Regardless of type I hood, direct vent, etc...... it don't mean a hill of beans if they are not maintained. I think a vent hood above a fire place box destroys the intention of the wood burning store that usually is designed for natural draft operations - some are designed for power assist. I will defer to NFPA 96 which has an extensive section on wood burning cooking appliances which I can easily get to from the IMC ..... in the admin section of the code.
 
We have at least three restaurants with these ovens'>http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/4justice2/media/Lampo_zpsl4ztu16b.jpg.html"]
Lampo_zpsl4ztu16b.jpg
Looks good !!! What time is dinner!!
 
We have at least three restaurants with these ovens
And we have many restaurants with these ovens as well, all of which have a Type I hood installed over them. We require a Type I hood to be installed over all extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances, just as IMC 507.2.1 requires. IMC 304.2 states "Where conflicts between this code and the conditions of listing or the manufacturer's installation instructions occur, the provisions of this code shall apply." There is certainly a conflict here, so the alternative to utilize the manufacturer's direct vent method could be requested through IMC Section 105 (VMC Section 106). We have not received any official code modification requests to utilize any other method or standard proposing equivalency to IMC 507.2.1, nor has anyone come forward to challenge our decision to require a Type I hood to the local Board of Building Code Appeals or State Technical Review Board. A lot of discussions and a lot of suggestions and a lot of disagreements, but no one has ever chosen to follow the available path to resolution found in IMC Section 105 (VMC 106) for modifications and alternative methods or Section 109 (VMC 119) for appeals. So I have to ask, in a jurisdiction with a population of more than a million people and approximately 4,000 restaurants (and an appeal board that meets once a month), why has this decision never been officially challenged through modification request or board appeal when there has been ample opportunity to do so?
 
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