Any ideas on how to correct my issues with this concrete slab?

[Grape_Ape]

I’d like to preface this by saying this was my first home project that I’ve tried to manage myself and I recognize I’ve probably learned an expensive lesson. I’m not sour about it. It is what it is and I take full responsibility but I’m trying to remedy it. Next time I know to start with permits and then hire the help and whatever I need to complete the jobs. Not backwards.

Long story short - I didn’t know how permitting and things like that worked. I thought I could just pour my concrete slab and if I needed a permit for the building I could get that later. I have since learned that it is incorrect and I am trying to figure out what my best solution is to solve this while also making it as painless as possible.

Here’s where I stand - I have a 30x26 pad that is 3.5” thick and directly on grade. I thought this was fine due to the minimums in the IBC but then learned about the IRC and the rules there. I have a non-refundable deposit of $1300 down for a 30x26 metal garage. I do not have any footers poured for this.

What are my options? I’ve only been able to come to two conclusions and hope that maybe they’re acceptable as far as code is concerned.

Option 1) My preferred option would be to cut a 1 foot section off the 3 load bearing edges of the slab. Dig a trench for the footers and pour them to be level with the slab. Would an expansion joint be needed in between the footers and the slab? I think so but I’m not 100% sure.

Option 2) Eat the $1300 deposit and have a “pole” garage built around the slab I’ve already poured.

None of it has to be pretty, I just wanted to get my vehicles off my driveway, grass, and under something for protection. If I took the “walls” off the garage would it change anything about my situation? Thanks for any help and additional ideas. I’m just trying to get a jump on this before next week starts.

 

[Grape_Ape]

After doing more research and reading it looks like I may just have to use it as a basketball court and consider it an expensive lesson learned.

 

[jar546]

I would say enjoy your new basketball court. Kudos for the great attitude. If you want, however to build the pole garage, you will have to demo the slab if you want it in the same location.

 

[e hilton]

Missing information. What caused the problem? Failed inspection? No permit?

Cutting the perimeter off the slab and pouring a new proper foundation would be a good option. It’s no different than poring the foundation first, erecting the building, and pouring the slab later ... except your doing it in reverse.

 

[TheCommish]

use hylical screws for foundation of the building, less digging

 

[SH225]

IRC Section R309.1 requires the floor area used for parking automobiles to be sloped to drain toward the main vehicle entrance. That could be an obstacle to getting the building permitted with the existing slab.

 

[ICE]

The slab could have an adequate footing underpinned. I have encountered dozens of the same scenario. Cutting the perimeter and digging a footing would be easier and a cold joint is acceptable. A 30'x26' is a shop building and a shop building does not require a sloping floor. Even if it were permitted as a garage, I for one would not ask you to do the slab over Just for slope.

Now there are questions as to what reinforcement was used in the slab and what evidence could you provide? Did you place anchors for the walls?

 

[Mark K]

I do not believe we understand what the real problem is. The building code was not written for a homowner handyman to understand.

I recommend the owner hire a local architect or engineer to understand what was done and to talk with the building department to understand what they see as the problem. This will likely be an iterative process. Then the owner will have a better idea as to the options.

I fear the metal garage is a bigger part of the problem.

 

[ADAguy]

He said the slab is level with grade? If so he may have water intrusion issues?

 

[Grape_Ape]

Just for some more information. I’ve not talked to the county about this yet. I live in a somewhat rural area in Georgia on 40 acres. So I think a lot of the people (family members and family friends) are not up to code and/or haven’t done anything in a long time. So they’re used to just doing what they want. The carport/garage/slab whatever is on my 4 acre plot we keep separate from the rest of the property.

I would say enjoy your new basketball court. Kudos for the great attitude. If you want, however to build the pole garage, you will have to demo the slab if you want it in the same location.

Okay, thanks. We may demo the slab anyways just depends on what happens. Wife doesn’t like the idea of just having a random pad in the yard and having to put our garage kind of in the front yard.

Missing information. What caused the problem? Failed inspection? No permit?

Cutting the perimeter off the slab and pouring a new proper foundation would be a good option. It’s no different than poring the foundation first, erecting the building, and pouring the slab later ... except your doing it in reverse.

I did this without permits because I was told I didn’t need them. It wasn’t until I started the garage ordering process that I figured all of this out and have since been trying to educate myself. So I’m trying to get ahead of the issue before I have a garage on top of a slab with everything needed to be demo’d or what have you.

use hylical screws for foundation of the building, less digging

Thank you, I will look into this.

IRC Section R309.1 requires the floor area used for parking automobiles to be sloped to drain toward the main vehicle entrance. That could be an obstacle to getting the building permitted with the existing slab.

The slab could have an adequate footing underpinned. I have encountered dozens of the same scenario. Cutting the perimeter and digging a footing would be easier and a cold joint is acceptable. A 30'x26' is a shop building and a shop building does not require a sloping floor. Even if it were permitted as a garage, I for one would not ask you to do the slab over Just for slope.

Now there are questions as to what reinforcement was used in the slab and what evidence could you provide? Did you place anchors for the walls?

We didn’t use any reinforcement because I thought that I read slabs under a certain thickness did not require it. I’ve been trying to educate myself but obviously it’s a little too late for that.

I do not believe we understand what the real problem is. The building code was not written for a homowner handyman to understand.

I recommend the owner hire a local architect or engineer to understand what was done and to talk with the building department to understand what they see as the problem. This will likely be an iterative process. Then the owner will have a better idea as to the options.

I fear the metal garage is a bigger part of the problem.

I’m not sure. I’ve not gotten the county involved yet. When I realized my issues it was already Friday afternoon and so I’ve been trying to get in front of this issue so that when I do talk to the county I can be in front of anything they may ask me to do. My first steps on Monday are to get in touch with the engineer at the metal building shop so I have more information about the building plans. Then I will get in touch with the county, explain my situation, and ask for how I can make this legal.

For more information regarding the garage. It’s just one of those online customizable deals. You start out telling them how big of a “carport” you want and what type of roof you want. Then you can add side walls and what not later in the process. It became a garage when I enclosed the third wall. Just a steel 14 gauge frame with a vertical roof and horizontal walls. Rated at 30 psf for snow and 140 mph.

He said the slab is level with grade? If so he may have water intrusion issues?

It’s possible. Would additional grading solve this issue?

 

[cda]

Possibly you may not require a permit or inspections

So find that out first

Than go from there

If o permit/ Inspections,,, can you construct the kit on the slab you have???

 

[Grape_Ape]

Possibly you may not require a permit or inspections

So find that out first

Than go from there

If o permit/ Inspections,,, can you construct the kit on the slab you have???

I believe I could find someone to construct it for me/help me if I got the full kit. I’m just concerned about not getting permit/inspections and one day the county forcing me to tear it down or fix it. I’d rather fix it now if it’s going to require fixing. I just didn’t think it would be so strict since these things can be mounted to the ground. So when people told me I wouldn’t need permits or anything I didn’t think much more about it.

 

[Mark K]

The more I hear the more I believe you need to be talking to a local architect or engineer, not an engineer with the metal building firm. You will probably be better served by talking to an engineer whose interest is in helping you. The metal building manufacture may have conflicting interests.

Typically the metal building firms only provide engineering for their building not the foundation. I have trouble believing you will not need a permit for the metal building which will address the concrete foundation. You will likely find that because of the steel building you will need reinforcing in the slab and the footing that does not exist in the concrete.

The local architect or engineer will be able to advise you regarding what the code says and help you prepare for discussions with building department.

The lack of reinforcing in your slab will cause you problems. Concrete shrinks as it dries over time. Without reinforcing these cracks will get worse as you drive vehicles on the slab.

 

[cda]

Pour a slab on top of this slab???

 

[Grape_Ape]

The more I hear the more I believe you need to be talking to a local architect or engineer, not an engineer with the metal building firm. You will probably be better served by talking to an engineer whose interest is in helping you. The metal building manufacture may have conflicting interests.

Typically the metal building firms only provide engineering for their building not the foundation. I have trouble believing you will not need a permit for the metal building which will address the concrete foundation. You will likely find that because of the steel building you will need reinforcing in the slab and the footing that does not exist in the concrete.

The local architect or engineer will be able to advise you regarding what the code says and help you prepare for discussions with building department.

The lack of reinforcing in your slab will cause you problems. Concrete shrinks as it dries over time. Without reinforcing these cracks will get worse as you drive vehicles on the slab.

Thank you for the information. I will pursue that route as well. I’ll get the building plans from the manufacturer so that I can at least give the local engineer more information.

Pour a slab on top of this slab???

If that is an option I will pursue it.

 

[cda]

Sounds like first step is find out if you even need permits or inspections

 

[cda]

Other option, use poured slab for patio, work area, dance floor, etc, and pour another pad that meets the needs, and will support the building, behind to side, in front of existing pad....

 

[Grape_Ape]

Other option, use poured slab for patio, work area, dance floor, etc, and pour another pad that meets the needs, and will support the building, behind to side, in front of existing pad....

Yea, we are looking at that. Unfortunately there isn’t much total room to work with around the existing slab. I’m considering putting the code approved pad more towards the front of the house. Unfortunately I have an overhead power line that kind of ends up cutting my “driveway” in half. Which is the reason why I’m limited on where I can put the garage. Another option I’ve considered is potentially still putting the new pad in front of the existing pad but cutting the existing pad by some percentage to make room. That way it may still be usable in some fashion and not a complete waste. Maybe cut 15 ft off of it and have the new pad essentially butt up next to it. That way it can still be used as a little basketball area for my young kids as they get older.

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

 

[JCraver]

I would say enjoy your new basketball court. Kudos for the great attitude. If you want, however to build the pole garage, you will have to demo the slab if you want it in the same location.

What? Why would he have to demo the slab to build a pole barn around it?

 

[e hilton]

What? Why would he have to demo the slab to build a pole barn around it?

Repour with proper footing, slab thickness, permits etc. Although the permit issue could possibly be resolved, if the slab construction is inadequate then that might be the gating factor.

 

[north star]

$ ~ $ ~ $

Grape_Ape,

Welcome to the Building Codes Forum !

IMO, ...** Mark K ** has the most accurate response
[ RE: Post # 13 ]........The other responses have
merit too, but I too believe that you should be
discussing this project with an architect or engineer
who has your interests in mind and not some metal
bldg. company wanting to just sell you something.

Even if no permits are required, ...serious consideration
should be given to the requirements of the Wind,
Snow & [ possibly ] Seismic Loads for your location.
A foundation should be so designed to resist the various
loads \ forces that will be acting upon your metal bldg.
The footings are designed to resist the uplift forces of
the wind, to keep your metal bldg. from separating
from the foundation when; not IF, a strong wind event
comes thru your area........Also, there is consideration
for the Snow & Seismic forces for your location.......All
of these should be addressed in writing by a Registered
Design Professional [ i.e. - an architect or engineer ].

You also have questions about the actual location on
your property because of electrical lines.

Because you have so many variables to your application,
no one on this Forum can provide you with all of the
correct answers that you have.

IMO, ...hire someone to serve your interests and has
first hand, on-site knowledge.........This investment will
pay for itself.

P.S. Whatever you come up with, will you please come
back on this site and let us know the outcome ? Thanks !

$ ~ $ ~ $

 

[JCraver]

Repour with proper footing, slab thickness, permits etc. Although the permit issue could possibly be resolved, if the slab construction is inadequate then that might be the gating factor.

Or drill holes on the outside of the slab, set the posts and build the building. There's no way I'd tear out the slab (or make someone tear it out as the B.O.) if a pole building is what's going over the top of it.

 

[Paul Sweet]

You also need to check with your county or town zoning. Most jurisdictions have minimum setback requirements (distance from property lines).

It might be possible to cut a couple feet off 2 sides of the slab, then pour a new slab with turned down edges on top of it, so the garage is offset a foot or 2 from the present slab location.



Reinforcement in a garage residential is mostly to minimize cracking. Fibers mixed into the concrete are another way to do this.

 

[my250r11]

Cut it back a foot all the way around. Pour new footing four inches higher than slab every where except where the roll up door is and put building on top of footing.
Yes will need expansion joint between slab and new footing.

Or go with the pole barn or metal building that uses columns and purlin. These will have spot footings at columns and would only need to cut where the columns are located. This still usually requires an engineer.