Architect contract limitations???

[Yankee Chronicler]

Only thing I would comment for deferred submittals is that can become challenging for building departments to administer. It works really well when you have a well run job. It works terribly when you have a poorly run job. A lot of building departments only do deferred submittals when they absolutely have to.

Under the IBC (unless a jurisdiction emasculates chapter 1 when adopting), deferred submittals are accepted only when allowed by the Building Official. We often have problems with design professionals (usually from other states, submitting for national chains) who give what are at best design development drawings and list basically everything as deferred submittals. They aren't happy when we refuse to play that game.

The new trick is foundation-only permits for pre-engineered metal buildings. All we get is a foundation set. When we ask for the PEMB set so we can verify that the foundations are designed for the reactions, the response is, Oh, that hasn't been designed yet. You'll get that when we apply for the superstructure permit."

Nope. I don't understand how any licensed engineer would put his seal on a design for a structure without knowing what the loads are.

 

[Yikes]

Under the IBC (unless a jurisdiction emasculates chapter 1 when adopting), deferred submittals are accepted only when allowed by the Building Official. We often have problems with design professionals (usually from other states, submitting for national chains) who give what are at best design development drawings and list basically everything as deferred submittals. They aren't happy when we refuse to play that game.

The new trick is foundation-only permits for pre-engineered metal buildings. All we get is a foundation set. When we ask for the PEMB set so we can verify that the foundations are designed for the reactions, the response is, Oh, that hasn't been designed yet. You'll get that when we apply for the superstructure permit."

Nope. I don't understand how any licensed engineer would put his seal on a design for a structure without knowing what the loads are.

Hypothetically, maybe they could just design a foundation + anchor bolts that list the allowable reaction forces that it is designed to accommodate.
The future PEMB designer would need to demonstrate that their proposed building addition to the previously approved foundation does not exceed these allowable forces.

Same as would happen if it were two separate projects.

 

[mtlogcabin]

We quit allowing foundation permits 15 years ago. It is either a shell permit or a complete build.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Hypothetically, maybe they could just design a foundation + anchor bolts that list the allowable reaction forces that it is designed to accommodate.
The future PEMB designer would need to demonstrate that their proposed building addition to the previously approved foundation does not exceed these allowable forces.

They certainly could do that.

And a building official would (IMHO) have to be insane to issue a foundation permit on that basis.

 

[Yikes]

They certainly could do that.

And a building official would (IMHO) have to be insane to issue a foundation permit on that basis.

It happens all the time in Los Angeles, and they have a ready-made modification form for for it.
https://ladbs.org/docs/default-sour...nly)-pc-str-mod52-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=ebc7eb53_26

The form requires both the applicant and the DPORs to sign the following statement on page 3 as a condition of approval:

"The undersigned owner, architect, and engineer responsible for the structural design, understand that the early start permit is issued based on incomplete plans and understand that the plans are neither checked nor approved for construction of the complete structure.

Further, the undersigned assume all risk and responsibility due to the construction of the work included in the early start permit, and will strictly adhere to all code requirements and make any changes to the construction approved as part of the early start permit that may be needed if conditions are different from those originally assumed. We understand that no vested rights are conveyed by this permit in the event that a conflict with any code or regulation is later identified upon checking the complete plans. Moreover, we indemnify and hold the City harmless from any and all liability, loss or expenditure of any kind or nature which may be sustained as a result of the construction or as to the loads presumed to be carried on the structure. Before a permit is issued for the construction of any structure on the new foundation, the entire structure must be made to conform in every manner with all applicable codes and regulations."

 

[tmurray]

Under the IBC (unless a jurisdiction emasculates chapter 1 when adopting), deferred submittals are accepted only when allowed by the Building Official. We often have problems with design professionals (usually from other states, submitting for national chains) who give what are at best design development drawings and list basically everything as deferred submittals. They aren't happy when we refuse to play that game.

The new trick is foundation-only permits for pre-engineered metal buildings. All we get is a foundation set. When we ask for the PEMB set so we can verify that the foundations are designed for the reactions, the response is, Oh, that hasn't been designed yet. You'll get that when we apply for the superstructure permit."

Nope. I don't understand how any licensed engineer would put his seal on a design for a structure without knowing what the loads are.

We approached this the same way.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

We quit allowing foundation permits 15 years ago. It is either a shell permit or a complete build.

I tried to be nice and allow "staged" permits. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. turned into a complete mess. I will now only consider it for major capital projects and even then, you better have a damned solid reason. And I might not say yes. Really, in today's day and age, if your plans aren't done by the time the shovels hit the ground, neither you nor I have a clue what you're building.

 

[Yikes]

Really, in today's day and age, if your plans aren't done by the time the shovels hit the ground, neither you nor I have a clue what you're building.

I disagree. I can think of plenty of instances where the developer knows enough of what they are doing, such as building retaining walls to establish a building pad. Sometimes planning departments require foundation work to be done and an initial construction inspection performed to vest entitlements / discretionary approvals, while the developer is still assembling their capital stack.

In the 80s, I knew an architect who provided building plans for a big-box home improvement retailer. When that retailer moved into a new region, the retailer would make a presentation to the city manager / economic development director at City A, and the same presentation for neighboring City B: "We are paying design firms to provide development plans for both cities, and we are applying to develop at both cities. Whichever city gets us permits first is the city that gets the development and our tax revenue."

At that time, it cost about $300k for the construction plans for a big box, but the retailer was projecting that much income every month. So if the strategy resulted in store opening 30 or more days sooner, it was profitable to do the throwaway plans. Obviously, the city was incentivized to do staged (grading only and foundation-only) permits.