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Architects don't have it easy

jar546

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Again, trying to get some discussion going and create new threads.

I understand that Architects, in many cases are put into a difficult position because they are:

* Trying to work within the budget of their client. Clients always expect more.

* Trying to appease their client who typically want what they can't have.

* Dealing with different code opinions from various code officials in different areas.

Now you can understand how architects attempt to get creative with some of their code interpretations. Thoughts and comments..........
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

Okay, someone will eventually take the bait and respond to this post...

There have been two occasions when I have seen architects just sit in their chair with a look of pain while their CLIENT attempts to tell the code official how to interpret the code in a creative way. They look to their architect for back-up and then get angry when their architect just sits there and shrugs his shoulders.

It was especially difficult when the client is a loud-mouth attorney trying to build several eight-plex apartments without automatic fire sprinkler systems. Three alternative options were given to avoid the fire sprinkler system but the attorney wanted to fight with the code officials rather than consider any alternative. I suggested that he change the IBC code and that sent him out the door with a false sense of hope. I haven't seen him for several months now and he still does not have a building permit. The architect is respected in the building community and I know that he is caught between a rock and a hard spot. I would hate to see him get sued by his own client - an attorney - for not finding a "solution" to this problem that his jack-ass-client has created.

Another case involves a church that has never had a certificate of occupancy for twenty years since they started meeting inside an old non-code-compliant building. Never-the-less, they wanted to expand. Several attempts have been made by the code officials over the years to make it legal. In spite of the extreme patience afforded by the City, the church pastor wants to play games instead. He hired an architect to design a large garage to park a few old buses. When the architect discovered the secret plan was to later convert this new 1,500 S.F. garage into their new sanctuary (without a building permit), he made a phone call to the building safety department. I doubt that this architect will ever get paid for this project.

I have several stories related to Asian restaurants. I like Chinese food so much that I considered moving to Shanghai (there were other reasons). And I have six brothers who are half Japanese. So please don't think I'm prejudiced. But I, personally, have never seen the planning for an Asian restaurant get put together without some interesting twists and turns. And, I have never seen an architect receive adequate (or final) payment for their work. I'm not certain why - perhaps it is just bad luck for architects to get involved in ethnic restaurants.

___________________

AIA, NCARB, ICC, CSI

Plan Review Engineer

Registered Architect
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

Great stories,

Although; it must be frustrating to work and study all those years; and then all your clients wants to know is how they can avoid code compliance; and how to do it cheaper.

I've had Engineer's tell me that they become frustrated with clients that don't want to build better quality; just more quantity for less.

We'll get some more Architects back on here pretty soon.

Uncle Bob
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

BayPointArchitect said:
Okay, someone will eventually take the bait and respond to this post...There have been two occasions when I have seen architects just sit in their chair with a look of pain while their CLIENT attempts to tell the code official how to interpret the code in a creative way. They look to their architect for back-up and then get angry when their architect just sits there and shrugs his shoulders.

It was especially difficult when the client is a loud-mouth attorney trying to build several eight-plex apartments without automatic fire sprinkler systems. Three alternative options were given to avoid the fire sprinkler system but the attorney wanted to fight with the code officials rather than consider any alternative. I suggested that he change the IBC code and that sent him out the door with a false sense of hope. I haven't seen him for several months now and he still does not have a building permit. The architect is respected in the building community and I know that he is caught between a rock and a hard spot. I would hate to see him get sued by his own client - an attorney - for not finding a "solution" to this problem that his jack-ass-client has created.

Another case involves a church that has never had a certificate of occupancy for twenty years since they started meeting inside an old non-code-compliant building. Never-the-less, they wanted to expand. Several attempts have been made by the code officials over the years to make it legal. In spite of the extreme patience afforded by the City, the church pastor wants to play games instead. He hired an architect to design a large garage to park a few old buses. When the architect discovered the secret plan was to later convert this new 1,500 S.F. garage into their new sanctuary (without a building permit), he made a phone call to the building safety department. I doubt that this architect will ever get paid for this project.

I have several stories related to Asian restaurants. I like Chinese food so much that I considered moving to Shanghai (there were other reasons). And I have six brothers who are half Japanese. So please don't think I'm prejudiced. But I, personally, have never seen the planning for an Asian restaurant get put together without some interesting twists and turns. And, I have never seen an architect receive adequate (or final) payment for their work. I'm not certain why - perhaps it is just bad luck for architects to get involved in ethnic restaurants.

___________________

AIA, NCARB, ICC, CSI

Plan Review Engineer

Registered Architect
Although, I'm just a Building Designer - It sounds like some real wonderful clients to have.

:lol:
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

Back when I was doing residential design/build we would have clients who would come in, sit down for the design meeting, tell us how wonderful the design was but that there were two problems. The first and foremost was that the budget exceded what they either thought it should be or what they could afford so lets bring that down to an affordable number. Usually, the next thing out of their mouths was that they needed to increase either the size or scope of the design and when it came to scope I am talking about adding a new 20'x30' home theater with all the bells and whistles. :x
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

jar546 said:
Again, trying to get some discussion going and create new threads.I understand that Architects, in many cases are put into a difficult position because they are:

* Trying to work within the budget of their client. Clients always expect more.

* Trying to appease their client who typically want what they can't have.

* Dealing with different code opinions from various code officials in different areas.

Now you can understand how architects attempt to get creative with some of their code interpretations. Thoughts and comments..........
Everyone gets creative with their code interpretations.

I've encountered code officials who had creative interpretations that were overly restrictive (example townhouse construction requires fee simple land ownership).

I've enountered code officials who had creative interpretations that were overly permissive (to the point of allowing a building to be CO'd with nothing more than a foundation permit).

Architects are no different, they interpret the code in light of their knowledge and their objectives and their fears.
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

Responding to a complaint of a patio cover built without a permit, I came across a freestanding 30' X 30' structure built with heavy timbers. When I told the H/O that an engineered plan would be required he stated that wasn't a problem because he was a Structural Engineer. When I asked him where he worked he stated "Disneyland". I said "So you are a Goofy engineer". He said he has heard many say " Mickey Mouse engineer but i was the first to call him Goofy.
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

My fear is that codes are limiting the creativity of architects, we will have no more structures like Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater. Philip Johnson's Glass House, or some of the very creative work of Oscar Niemeyer. As a builder we now hire architects not on the basis of their creativity or talent, but on their ability to get proposed projects through Design Review Commissions and Planning Commissions. BTW, Oscar Niemeyer is still alive and producing at 102 years of age, he's a producer, not a pension whore, I saw one of his homes in Rio in a book that had a beautiful floating staircase with no railings, I bet no one has fallen down those stairs, I stood there mesmerized by the pure structural beauty.
 
Re: Architects don't have it easy

My experience is that most architects are very creative, just not very code knowledgeable as far as the why its in the code is concerned. Many times when I explain why something is in the code I hear the light bulb come on (yes, you can hear the switch).

You can be as creative as you want, you just can't throw the code book out.

If more design professionals and code officials stood up to the clients it might help, but there is always one out there that will stamp/pass anything.
 
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