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Artificial stone permit Q.

SCBO1

SCBO1

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Would you require a permit for the installation of artificial stone attached to an existing brick building structure?

The existing building is in good condition. Old red brick that's been painted.

We typically do not require a permit for installing vinyl siding over existing siding on residential.
 
Don't have the information or any plans, this is faux stone covering up old brick.
 
May wanna check out IBC Sections 1405.6 through 1405.10.

Veneers do have specific requirements for attachment. Most likely an engineer should review the existing brick veneer and its ties to the structure to see if sufficient capacity exists for the gravity and seismic forces.

Remember that in earthquakes, most people are injured/killed by falling debris (such as brick walls/chimneys/etc.) and not by structural collapse.
 
Since this is an existing building, the IEBC would probably be applicable if adopted. By definition, the application of a veneer would be an "alteration," which requires a permit per Section 105.1. However, there are exceptions. In such a case, the applicable section would be 105.2, which identifies work exempt from a permit. None of the listed items refer to exterior cladding systems or veneers; so, unless your jurisdiction amends this section, then I would say a permit is required.
 
Found an ICC ES report, but it did not indicate they evaluated for attachment to brick. Did list masonry walls.

I feel the contractor is about to tell me we do it all the time?
 
Wouldn't a brick be considered a masonry unit?

I wouldn't think the ES report would have listed "Brick" if tested for application to "Brick".
 
Ty J. said:
Is the existing brick structural or an exterior cladding?
Click to expand...

Not sure, that's a good Q. Will have to find out more, I'm getting the impression, that the owners contractor's have been slapp'n this stuff up allover and hasn't done a brick cover-up yet.

One question I have, would the fasteners go in the mortar joint or the brick?

Property owner already stated he's not gonna use an Architect. This is the crap Inspectors deal with all the time.
 
Pcinspector1 said:
Not sure, that's a good Q. Will have to find out more, I'm getting the impression, that the owners contractor's have been slapp'n this stuff up allover and hasn't done a brick cover-up yet.

One question I have, would the fasteners go in the mortar joint or the brick?

Property owner already stated he's not gonna use an Architect. This is the crap Inspectors deal with all the time.
Click to expand...
Most go into the mortar joint. See picture.

upload_2019-12-17_13-19-15.jpeg
 
e hilton said:
I think the question refers to the new anchors for the fakie stone veeneer. And i bet the contractor plans to anchor into the mortar because its softer and easier to drill into.
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That shouldn't be done without an engineering design. That would also create a number of issues with condensation and flashing, and beyond that, you would have one veneer tied to another veneer tied to a building. How does one tie transfer to another tie and ultimately to the building?

I believe that the intent is to place a stone veneer set into a mortar scratch coat applied to an existing brick veneer. The issue would then be the weight of the cladding for the existing ties.
 
The ESR-3111 report evaluation was done with the 2006 code and reissued in 2012. so I'm not sure if there has been a revision or testing on attaching to brick.

I believe a DP should be involved or testing indicating the faux stone can be applied to a brick wall.
 
e hilton said:
I think the question refers to the new anchors for the fakie stone veeneer. And i bet the contractor plans to anchor into the mortar because its softer and easier to drill into.
Click to expand...

Yes, and to be pulled out of. If brick is only stacked as a cladding then it has no strength to attach to.
Have you checked with the mfg. of the product?
 
Pretty sure I have seen MFR guidelines that required lath, along with disclaimers about the existing conditions such as how the brick is secured and weep holes. I looked for them but couldn't find them. I think a permit is needed but I would check directly with the proposed MFR to see if they have guidance on the installation.
 
classicT said:
believe that the intent is to place a stone veneer set into a mortar scratch coat applied to an existing brick veneer. The issue would then be the weight of the cladding for the existing ties.
Click to expand...
This I believe is the intent.
 
I venture to guess that this has taken place thousands of times without benefit of a permit.
 
Forget an ICC Evaluation Report, forget the manufacturers recommendations. I fear somebody will require manufacturers instructions for sawn lumber.

Look in the masonry code I believe that they address the issues but you will likely find that it does not provide a prescriptive solution. Still the masonry code is the starting point. If there is no prescriptive code provision then I suggest that the Owner involve an Architect.

Is the artificial stone thin or thick. Given that the brick has been painted I would guess that an adhered system is not in the cards.
 
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