B attached to an agriculture building in PA

[Mr. Inspector]

PA has excepted agriculture buildings to needing permits. I'm doing plan review where they want to connect a existing B building to an existing chicken house. Right now these two buildings are 10' apart. They want to add an addition which would be like a 2 story hall to connect the two buildings which would make it one building. Would they need a fire wall to separate them so they are two separate buildings?

I hope someone in PA can answer this or someone where they have the same rule about agriculture buildings.

 

[ADAguy]

Is the chicken coop an active coop,
Any proposed openings between addition and coop?
What does your occupancy code separation require?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

The chicken coop is very active. But is has no occupancy because it is exempted
from code here. The PA code says agriculture buildings are exempt from code,
so wouldn't need a fire wall to keep it a building by itself?

 

[tmurray]

This is how they are handled in Canada

3.2.3.19. Walkway between Buildings
1) Except as required by Sentence 3.2.3.20.(2), if buildings are connected by a walkway, each building shall be separated from the walkway by a fire separation with a fire-resistance rating not less than 45 min .
2) Except as permitted by Sentence (3), a walkway connected to a building required to be of noncombustible construction shall also be of noncombustible construction.
3) A walkway connected to a building required to be of noncombustible construction is permitted to be of heavy timber construction provided
a) not less than 50% of the area of any enclosing perimeter walls is open to the outdoors, and
b) the walkway is at ground level.
4) A walkway of noncombustible construction used only as a pedestrian thoroughfare need not conform to the requirements of Articles 3.2.3.14. and 3.2.3.15.
5) A walkway between buildings shall be not more than 9 m wide.

I would question how you would attach a building meeting code to one that is unregulated. You can't imagine the building isn't there. Think about it a different way; you would not permit a walkway between a new, code compliant building and one that was built before the adoption of a building code without a code review of the building. I guess it depends on the wording of the legislation. Is the code prohibited from being applied to agricultural buildings or is it prohibited from being enforced? If it is prohibited from being applied, you would be asking them to violate a law to perform a code review, which you cannot do, so a firewall would be required. If it is simply prohibited from being enforced, the building owner can voluntarily undertake a code review.

As much as certain exemptions provide advantages to some special interest groups, there are always drawbacks as well.

 

[mtlogcabin]

the new building should be structurally independent with a one-hour exterior wall adjacent to the "U" occupancy and you are done. Protected openings if needed

 

[ADAguy]

are you proposing to abut the new 2 story bearing wall to the Chicken house wall?
Any doorways between?
Does the Chicken house have a floor?
What is the Chicken house made of?

 

[Jmb]

I am in PA.
If an agricultural building is exempt, then it is it's own "building".
Fire walls separate "buildings" if they are connected. 2 hour between U and B, for Type II of V construction
The agricultural building may be exempt, but you are not requiring anything for it, only the addition of the B will require the fire wall

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I'll go with what jmb says. But by asking some other inspectors if the owner goes to court they will probably get the whole building exempt.

Which happened for a stable at a race track, a building used to cut firewood to sell, a barn were a farmer sold pies and crafts that his wife made.

The chicken house: Don't know about a floor on the first story but there must be one on the second story. It has masonry exterior walls. They now want to use these walls as a 2 hr. fire partition with 1.5 hr. double doors on each floor. I am telling them that it should be a fire wall. There will be a steel roof too.

 

[tmurray]

I'll go with what jmb says. But by asking some other inspectors if the owner goes to court they will probably get the whole building exempt.

Which happened for a stable at a race track, a building used to cut firewood to sell, a barn were a farmer sold pies and crafts that his wife made.

The chicken house: Don't know about a floor on the first story but there must be one on the second story. It has masonry exterior walls. They now want to use these walls as a 2 hr. fire partition with 1.5 hr. double doors on each floor. I am telling them that it should be a fire wall. There will be a steel roof too.

That seems like an enormous loophole. Don't want to build to code? Add some agricultural use to your building!

 

[cda]

Sure the coop is not a "R" occupancy ??


Rooster-1?


Well ag normally does not happen in larger cities. So on the farm, need to help the farmers all we can.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I think the best way to help the farmers is to make sure their barns are built safe to code.

 

[tmurray]

We have a farm building code in Canada. All the structural requirements, very few of the life safety requirements due to low occupancy density.

 

[Mark Sigler]

Typically buildings exempted from permitting are not exempt from the provisions of the code governing their construction, which creates the dilemma of "who can verify that". I'm not certain how your applicable code reads regarding the exemption specifically, you would have to provide the code citation.

Presuming this to be the case, review the new construction like any other structure and any impacts to the new construction resulting from location on lot, fire separations, structural, exiting, accessibility, etc. would apply to the new construction and the portions of the existing relied on to make the new portion viable. Structural independence is, advisable yes but not necessarily required. It would require that the portion used jointly be analyzed to ensure its' ability to serve both structures.

We also exempt certain Ag buildings here however our regulation requires them to remain separated per Chapter 6 to all other structures, meet their zoning and critical areas setbacks.

Hope that is helpful,
Mark

 

[steveray]

You would have to look in the PA law...Do they define ag building and are there any allowances for "accessory" uses, and does this meet it? If not then I agree with your interp and it needs to be a separate building via firewall or actual separation...

 

[Jmb]

Here is the PA Law and Definition:


TITLE 34

Department of Labor and Industry

The provisions of this Chapter 401 issued under section 701(a) of the Pennsylvania Construction Code Act (35 P. S. § § 7210.701—7210.1103), unless otherwise noted.

The provisions of this Chapter 401 adopted April 12, 2002, effective July 12, 2002, 32 Pa.B. 1849, unless otherwise noted.

§ 401.1. Definitions.

Agricultural building—

(i) A structure utilized to store farm implements, hay, feed, grain or other agricultural or horticultural products or to house poultry, livestock or other farm animals, a milk house and a structure used to grow mushrooms.

(ii) The term includes a carriage house owned and used by members of a recognized religious sect for the purposes of housing horses and storing buggies.

(iii) The term does not include habitable space or spaces in which agricultural products are processed, treated or packaged and will not be construed to mean a place of occupancy by the general public.

 

[steveray]

AG is exempt, B doesn't meet AG, B needs to be protected from AG because B needs to meet code. Firewall, FSD, etc....

 

[ADAguy]

Good analysis gang, Rick and Mark you are on point on this one.
In CA we have occasion to see this on Ag campuses in JC's located in the big city that were originally surrounded by large open areas.