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Barrier Design around Commercial Pool in Condo Complex

Discussion in 'Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs' started by tbz, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    Good morning Everyone,

    I have a project that was fabricated and installed at a private condo complex that serves off campus housing near a university in Pennsylvania. The code is the 2015 ICC swimming pool code as adopted. This keeps people out of the outdoor swimming pool area.

    When we designed the project we had the issue that the fence would be having guards next to them because this is a raised patio area. Hence you walked up stair flights between two buildings to the pool level above. The guards on the stair flights and the fence would intersect. Thus the guards created an issue with the clear zone requirements and the 45" clear zone requirements.

    So to address this we took the minimum guard height of 42" and then added 46" to set our minimum barrier height. This creates the 45" required clear zone at the top of the barrier, rather than the bottom of the barrier which could not be obtained because of the required guards.

    In doing this we ended up with a 88" high barrier. So to breakup the height we added a stiffener horizontal at 34 inches above the ground level which creates a 54" vertical clear zone between the 2 horizontal channels.

    Once the panels got away from the guards and gates we reduced the height of the barrier panels to 79" overall which is the 34" lower with a 45" upper.

    The breakdown of the base design is shown below.

    Currently the inspection turned out a violation notice where the AHJ is requesting that the vertical spacing below the 34" be reduced to less than 1-3/4" because it creates a ladder effect of being able to climb up to the 2nd horizontal (at 34") and that this was not allowed at all in the lower portion of the barrier. They might also be talking about the less than 4" spacing's in the upper panels which is over 1.75" and which we have the 45" clear heigth covered, but I am not sure on that, just that they are saying the 45" clear zone needs to be on the lower portion and not allowed on the upper portion.

    I have not been able to discuss longer than a minute or so on the phone yet with them and I sent them the below diagram this morning and are waiting for a replay. But in the mean time I am reaching out to get input from my peers on this and see your comment.

    I look forward to your comments and will answer any questions one might have.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    For a little more context here are some pictures of the site.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    You know what ... at some point common sense has to prevail. This is BS. The “fence” in the pictures is enough to prevent anyone from easily getting to the pool. Enough is enough.
     
  4. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    What of access for disabled students?
     
  5. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    As with anything sometimes things that seem common sense to one person, aren't to another, if he was still alive I am sure Thomas Paine would agree with your interpretation as do I, However that does not solve the issue or the question at hand and I was hoping that more people would have chimed in by now. I am wondering if it is because this is in the swimming pool section and not listed under the IBC building section of the forum and members don't use the new post option as much as I would think.

    So "E Hilton", I am going to take your response as an agreement with that the code says you need to have a clear 45" height zone that complies and that it does not matter where it is specifically located within the barrier. And thank you for your response, and Mr. Engel and my250r11 I am guessing you agree with "e hilton" based on the likes.
     
    my250r11 likes this.
  6. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    Not understanding your question on access for disabled students where it pertains to the 45" clear height zone? The plan reviewers and inspectors reviewed all the access ways, features and devices for A117.1 which mirrors 2010 ADA and the facility was scrutinized for compliance and passed, so please explain your question in more detail so I can better answer it for you?

    I will also ask about the O/P again, it is directed at the 45" height zone and where by your review of the 2015 ICC Swimming pool & Spa code, does it need to be. Hence do you agree or disagree that the 45" minimum clear height zone can only be located at the bottom, or this zone just needs to be completed within the barrier to discourage climbing over.
     
  7. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    So there is an accessible POT to the pool deck and it has a lift?
     
  8. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I would allow the barrier to start "on top of" the guard....Think above ground pool deck.....
     
  9. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    Just outside the barrier on the patio level there is full access with ramps, conditioned bathrooms, changing rooms, elevators, fitness room access is well covered for anyone.

    The stairs are for emergency egress out of the buildings and happen to pass by the pool patio area, thus the separation and guard requirements.
     
  10. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    "I" now see (smiling)
     
  11. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    I am providing an update to this post now that I was able to speak with the AHJ at length.

    The AHJ issued the violation requesting that the larger openings under 4" but more than 1.75" be reduced to the 1.75 based on section 305.2.5. Closely Spaced Horizontals.

    In my discussion with the AHJ earlier today, I noted that the (2) Horizontals are 45 inches and more a part and thus are covered under 305.2.6 Widely spaced horizontals and only held to the 4" sphere requirement.

    In doing so they have verbally agreed that if the horizontals are 45 inches or more a part then 305.2.6 applies and they agree then the installation complies.

    They need to revisit the site and take measurements to confirm the information discussed prior to releasing the violation and approving the barrier for compliance. I will update everyone once I have the final information on the AHJ next site inspection.
     
  12. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Glad it seems like it is working out....My take is that climbing is allowed, as long as at some point you hit that "unclimbable" barrier....
     
  13. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    Just an update on the project, I spoke to the AHJ on Friday afternoon before heading out to a clients and he noted that he visited the location again and found everything we spoke about with the barrier to be in order. They could not sign off on the violation order because our 1 item was only one of 4 items cited on the failure notice, he is waiting for those items to be fixed by others before being able to sign off. But noted we were good.
     
    my250r11 likes this.

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