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Barriers

Discussion in 'Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs' started by Keystone, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    PASS or FAIL?

    IG pool with wood split rail having 1 3/4" by 4" wire fencing stapled to the exterior of the stockade. Height, gates, etc... not a concern.
     
  2. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Maybe pass.....1-3/4" is usually the magic # on spacing for unclimbability w/ vert and horiz members........(assuming that is the width dim.).....
     
  3. ICE

    ICE Moderator

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    It sounds like it's too easy to climb. Hand holds are not allowed. A kid with no legs could be over it in a flash. And if he had no arms as well, we would call him Bob.
     
  4. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    The 1 3/4" is vertical and the 4" is horizontal.

    ICE - Bob is appropriate for the first couple minutes but his last name would have to follow "Sinker".
     
  5. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Sorry!....No good! we have some nice parting gifts for you out back then!

     
  6. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    My interpretation, the fence does not comply. IMHO, re: 2009 IRC, the fence is most similar to a chain link, also referred to as mesh, and the limiting dimensions for opening of a chain link apply. Additionally lattice opening offer less of an open dimension.

    Neighboring and building official feel the original opening complies. What say some of the inspectors in rural and suburban areas?
     
  7. Alias

    Alias Registered User

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    Question - When you say 'wood split rail' I envision a rail fence a la Abe Lincoln. Is this what you mean?

    Sue
     
  8. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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  9. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    The mesh fence would be stapled on the exterior side of the fence.
     
  10. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I think this is the section that would get them, I don't think you need the chain link or latttice reference..........

    4. Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members and the distance between the tops of the horizontal members is less than 45 inches (1143 mm), the horizontal members shall be located on the swimming pool side of the fence. Spacing between vertical members shall not exceed 1.75 inches (44 mm) in width. Where there are decorative cutouts within vertical members, spacing within the cutouts shall not exceed 1.75 inches (44 mm) in width.
     
  11. mjesse

    mjesse Registered User

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    I concur with steveray ^
     
  12. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    I would agree but the limiting factor in #4 is the width at 1 3/4", no limiting factor with respect to horizontal. What I get from the commentary is not clear either, they illustrate a fence with one decorative cutout at the top.

    My first comment was non-climbable but realized nothing in the code to back it up.

    Two straws I continue to grasp;

    1. The fence material attached to the split rail is consistent with a chain link material/construction.

    2. The commentary illustration showing #4 as well as other vertical/horizontal references seem to elude to non-wire/non-mesh type material similar to whats in place but instead providing the opinion of rigid/solid construction.
     
  13. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    After second look, I think I know where you guys are going with #4. The horizontal must be on the inside/ pool side not the pool side (split rail) and the exterior (mesh fencing).
     
  14. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Think of your split rail as a ladder.....if the horizontal rails (or whaterver horizontals your barrier is made of (deck surface, whatever)) are closer than 45" they have to be on the pool side and the vertical spacing (4" chicken wire,ballusters, or whatever) has to be 1-3/4" max....the wire in and of itself would be argueable....having climbed many a chainlink fence barefoot, I don't think wire would be easier....

     
  15. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Registered User

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    The wire mesh should be securely fastened to the post at the top and bottom and no more than 12 inches apart. No more than 2 inches apart along the horizontal top and bottom rails. Need to have the bottom of the fabric embedded or staked below the soil; it's not likely to have a tension wire stretched to prevent lifting the fabric and crawl underneath.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Francis
     
  16. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Good pic Francis!......The only thing that looks really suspect would be latch height?
     
  17. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    Francis, the top pic is closest to what I am dealing with, actually seems to be similar spacing. Its this that I do not feel complies due to the spacing. IMO, once you slap on the mesh, you revert to the closest relation, chainlink requirements - max 2 1/4" opening.

    I do see the need for ground level tension or burial as well as 12" OC fastening.
     
  18. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Registered User

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    I copied the pictures from a fence company in Maryland. I used to install commercial fence 30 yrs. ago and manage to remember a little bit. If you search "pool barrier fence wire mesh minimum gage" you can find some code handouts that require 16, 11 or 14 gage, and permit this type of install.

    Normally chain link fence less than 6 ft. will not have bottom tension wire (coil wire) and it may be the case with the wire mesh; depends on the thickness (gage) and memory of the wire.

    Francis
     
    #18 Francis Vineyard, Aug 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2012
  19. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Registered User

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    5. Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members, and the distance between the tops of the horizontal members is 45 inches (1143 mm) or more, spacing between vertical members shall not exceed 4 inches (102 mm). Where there are decorative cutouts within vertical members, spacing within the cutouts shall not exceed 13/4 inches (44 mm) in width.

    Should you do a search manufacturer's and fence companies promote the mesh as pool barrier compliant as do code officials.

    The fastener spacing is chain link standard. I should have written that the bottom or ground level tension is "to be installed as needed" done for pool barriers but not for border fences. If you can determine that a child can lift it up or the fabric does not return to its original position then it needs to be reinforced.

    I have not check the new pool barrier reference for standards.

    Francis
     
    #19 Francis Vineyard, Aug 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2012
  20. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

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    No no no Francis, everyone is supposed to agree with me:)
     

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