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Bathroom Recep location

Darren Emery

Darren Emery

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Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
510
Location
Manhattan, Ks
It seems to me there used to be verbage to the effect that you could not be required to cross one sink from another to get to a bathroom GFI. 2009 IRC section 3901.6 just states the outlet must be within 3' of the edge of each basin. In your opinion, is the recep location in the image code compliant?

View attachment 1682

View attachment 1682

/monthly_2012_04/572953e5c30dc_SinkRecep.jpg.83f66af8d645e38552b7e381f7aa2713.jpg
 
We amended/revised our 2011 NEC section as follows:

Article 210.52(D) Bathrooms. Add at the end of this section: If apparent work space is adjacent to a sink, the required outlet shall be installed on the side of the sink basin nearest the work station.
 
I will have to disagree. The outlet is not adjacent to the second sink IMO and if you look at the handbook Jeff Sargent agrees. If it were between the sinks it would be compliant.

Section 210.52(D) requires one wall receptacle in each bathroom of a dwelling unit to be installed adjacent to (within 36 in. of) the basin. An alternative location for the required receptacle outlet is on the side or face of the basin cabinet.Different in application from the exception to 210.52©(5), the permission to install a receptacle outlet in the side or face of the basin cabinet is not contingent on the adjacent wall location being unfeasible or inaccessible to a handicapped person. Like the kitchen counter rule, the outlet must be located so that the receptacle(s) is not more than 12 in. below the basin countertop.This receptacle is required in addition to any receptacle that may be part of any luminaire or medicine cabinet. If there is more than one basin, a receptacle outlet is required adjacent to each basin location. If the basins are in close proximity, one receptacle outlet installed between the two

basins can be used to satisfy this requirement. See 406.9©, which prohibits installation of a receptacle over a bathtub or inside a shower stall. See Exhibit 210.9 for a sample electrical layout of a bathroom.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry, I'd have to disagree. The receptacle is adjacent to BOTH basins, and it is within 36". If it said immediately adjacent then I could agree, but it doesn't. The specification of 36" appears to decide what is adjacent.

I still don't like it, but think it is arguably compliant.

JMHO

ad·ja·cent/əˈjāsənt/



[TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]Adjective:

[/TD]

[TD][TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]

  1. Next to or adjoining something else: "adjacent rooms".
[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]
 
4. Article 210.8 shall be amended to add the following: No less than one 20-ampere GFCI-protected duplex outlet shall be provided for every vanity sink installed in a residential occupancy.
 
TJacobs said:
4. Article 210.8 shall be amended to add the following: No less than one 20-ampere GFCI-protected duplex outlet shall be provided for every vanity sink installed in a residential occupancy.
Click to expand...
Never happen but it would be in article 210.52, IMO, if it did. The way it is written is definitely suggesting one is okay and I seem to recall it being spelled out however it is not that clear if the intent is to have one by each sink or one in the middle. That has been the accepted MO around here for sure.
 
Dennis said:
Never happen but it would be in article 210.52, IMO, if it did. The way it is written is definitely suggesting one is okay and I seem to recall it being spelled out however it is not that clear if the intent is to have one by each sink or one in the middle. That has been the accepted MO around here for sure.
Click to expand...
We interpret the intent to reduce the likely-hood of a cord crossing over or behind a lavatory. We talked to contractors and developers and asked them what they could get for double vanities and mirror/back-splash designs that would meet the intent and still be within in their budgets. The biggest concern were with integral or monolithic counter-top designs combined with mirrors mounted on low back-splashes. This gave little room to place outlets between the vanities without integrating the outlet into either the back-splash or mirror, which was typically not preferred by clients/future home-owners. A two outlet alternative was accepted, where one outlet was on the the outside of the vanities, in some cases past the edge of the mirror/counter by the toilet.
 
The funny thing is even with one sink there is no guarantee that the cord won't cross the sink depending on whether you are right handed or left handed and which side the outlet is one. So in that sense it should make no difference if it crosses a sink. Not sure what the intent is on this.

I made a proposal for the 2014 code to limit the distance the outlet can be below a sink. This would be similar to what one has in a kitchen- not more than 12" down. As it stands now I could have an outlet one foot off the floor next to a pedestal sink and it would be compliant.

The cmp has accepted it in principle so we will see if it makes it.
 
Dennis, we use the "work space" language (which we define as the larger of the two surfaces) to indicate the location of the outlet. A typical layout will have 6 inches of counter space, lav/sink, 12-18 inches of counter space, lav/sink, and 6 inches of counter space. The center space is now the work space, and is where the outlet should be located.

Good luck with the CMP.
 
+

Dennis,

Isn't the 12" [ below the counter top dimension ] already in

the `08 NEC, or are you adding language to cover ALL lavatories

/ basins?.........Refer to Article 210.52(D).

FWIW, Darren, I would have to also say "compliant" [ to the

letter ], but not the intent.

I believe the intent of not stretching the electrical cord in / through

running water might be the reason for having a GFCI rated electrical

receptacle installed within the 36 inch horizontal dimension from the

lav. edge



+
 
Last edited by a moderator:
north star said:
+Dennis,

Isn't the 12" [ below the counter top dimension ] already in

the `08 NEC, or are you adding language to cover ALL lavatories

/ basins?.........Refer to Article 210.52(D).

FWIW, Darren, I would have to also say "compliant" [ to the

letter ], but not the intent.

I believe the intent of not stretching the electrical cord in / through

running water might be the reason for having a GFCI rated electrical

receptacle installed within the 36 inch horizontal dimension from the

lav. edge



+
Click to expand...
The 12" is for kitchen but not bathrooms. As I stated you could have a receptacle near the floor of a pedestal sink and be compliant. My proposal was to make bathroom receptacles have the same limit as kitchen counters recep.
 
480sparky said:
I vote it's compliant. Exceedingly poor design, but compliant.
Click to expand...
BTW. I had asked Ken to check the code way back as he has code books that go back before the dinosaurs.. nothing in there every stated the receptacle could not be placed as the op stated.
 
Dennis said:
The 12" is for kitchen but not bathrooms. As I stated you could have a receptacle near the floor of a pedestal sink and be compliant. My proposal was to make bathroom receptacles have the same limit as kitchen counters recep.
Click to expand...
(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop, located on the countertop, or installed on the side or face of the basin cabinet not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacle outlet assemblies listed for the application shall be permitted to be installed in the countertop.
 
+ +

480sparky,

S`pose the lavatory doesn't have a countertop, such as in a pedestal type?

+ +
 
north star said:
+ +480sparky,

S`pose the lavatory doesn't have a countertop, such as in a pedestal type?

+ +
Click to expand...
I think it would be reasonable to use the "adjacent to edge of basin" for pedestal type lavatories.
 
=



"I think it would be reasonable to use the "adjacent to edge of basin" for pedestal type lavatories."
Click to expand...
I agree Papio!......The current code section does not have the specific

language with this dimension or location for "lavatories without

counter tops"........If we are going to beat the contractors over the

head with the code books, we should at least be able to cite "chapter

& verse".

$
 
north star said:
=

"........If we are going to beat the contractors over the

head with the code books, we should at least be able to cite "chapter

& verse".

$
Click to expand...
LOL...D'oh, I forgot about the beatings continuing until moral improves. I guess that is why Wednesdays are my day in the barrell.
 
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