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"Bedroom"

kvnhrmn

Registered User
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
21
Location
North Idaho
Hello and thanks for the help,
I am building a small home in North Idaho, my plans were approved a couple months ago but I had a conversation with the local inspector the other day while he was inspecting the foundation. At that time he told me that I could NOT have a "closet" in one of the rooms in the basement labeled as "office/storage" because the closet automatically makes the room a "Bedroom". I have read the 2015 revision that states that a closet in a room makes that room a bedroom. My question is. Doesn't the room also have to meet the size, heat, egress requirements also?
It's a simple but stupid fix of just removing the doors and sides for jamb. Any way around the inspector?
It can't legally be a bedroom ever because of egress but they are saying I have to remove the closet.
Thanks,
Kevin
 
One more question. It doesn't relate to the bedroom but I figured I would save space.
Can building inspectors dictate process? Or how my home is built (quality control)? I am pouring stem walls on a footing and the temperature is going to be around freezing. The pour will be hot. It is for a 15x30 foot section of the house and I have told the inspectors that I will be tenting and heating the pour to make sure it doesn't freeze. Can they tell me how to tent and heat the project? If everything has been inspected, rebar, forms, footings and passed. Can they dictate how the concrete is cured? This is my first time building in Idaho (inside City limits).
Thanks
 
Welcome

Not an IRC person

Can you give the section you are looking at that says a closet makes it a bedroom

Not into concrete seems as long as you follow professional practice, should be good to go.

I think some cities dictate the temp you cannot pour at.
 
I guess my kitchen is a bedroom

It has a closet



Maybe the enclosure reappears after final approval?
 
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Can you give the section you are looking at that says a closet makes it a bedroom

I found it online in another cities revisions. I'm guessing they adopted the same "definition"
RB4-16:R202-Bedroom
(New)-MEDINA13116
 
This is an every day occurrence and problem in communities and building departments across the country.

TECHNICAL RESPONSE:
- The model codes do not describe features that define a bedroom. The term "sleeping room" is used, as a way to imply the name doesn't matter, but rather what is a probable use of the room. i.e. "sleeping"
- It sounds like your jurisdiction addressed this problem locally with an amendment. You are aware of this per your comment: "I have read the 2015 revision that states that a closet in a room makes that room a bedroom."
- The jurisdiction has the authority of interpretation and because this is an amendment, I'm guessing they are pretty confident about it.
- They do not have the authority to require you to remove the closet. You have other options. You could put in the emergency escape and rescue opening window and the required alarms.

STRAIGHT UP TRUTH RESPONSE:
- This code question drives to the heart of liberties and freedoms this country was built on. It is political. It is emotional. It is as big as gun control and abortion. How much freedom are you willing to give up for the sake of social safety?

Camp One:
- Your house will outlast your occupancy of it in any statistics worth considering. Few will argue this.
- Average citizens have no idea of the required designs, features and devices that are serving and saving them everyday. They only know when something goes wrong. They will sleep where ever they are comfortable, whenever they are tired, and according to their own standards and preference. Few are thinking of waking up to smoke, flames and mere moments to make life or death decisions.
- In those moments, in panic, people do what is natural...muscle and response memory.
- Therefore, we must save lives by recognizing the commonplace decisions of how families will use houses and what their common habits are.
- The twin boys argue and fight every night and one can't get any sleep because the other snores. OR Gee...there might be a fire tonight. Which of the two do you think is the priority concern in the chaos of everyday life of everyday families?
- Remove all the labels from your house plans. Hand them to a stranger with a moderate family of say 2 or 3 kids. Ask them to label the rooms. This is when people find their office, playroom, sewing room, exercise room and craft rooms...labeled as bedrooms.
- This is why the building department takes the freedom of your temporary occupancy of the home away from you and decides what to label your rooms.
- You might loose everything next year and move. Or you might champion everything next year and move and rent this house to another occupant.
- The government can't let you kill those people. Children have been burned alive in rooms like your office while the firefighters outside hear the screams. This is real. Some people are okay with that for their freedom, some are not.
- The future buyers will never see the labels written on the house plans.

Camp Two:
- This house is my property and my castle.
- I will legally label the rooms as to their intended uses. I will do what I have to for those uses to be safe according to society's rules.
- When I move, it is the next owner's responsibility to research and study the legal use and intended design of the building. That is the same thing required of commercial business owners. We don't require fire sprinklers in every building just because of what it "could" be used for in the future. Buyer beware.
- If I sell someone a car and they try to use it as a boat, it's not on my conscience if they drown.

There is still so much more to this issue.

The standard regarding the temperature for proper concrete curing is ACI-318. From the American Concrete Institute. They've been writing that standard since long before I was born. It's a whole other big discussion about how this is interpreted as a reference from the IRC and to what extent. I've already vomited enough words for now. You would be wise to protect your concrete during curing.

I hope this was helpful.
 
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Thanks for the replies. Pretty much what I figured. I've read the ACI and there is a flyer that the county has put out for cold weather pours. I guess every inspectors has his or her idea of jurisdiction. Ultimately it's my responsibility as the builder to make sure things are done correctly.
As far as the "bedroom", I could see if the room had any chance of being an actual legal bedroom but it doesn't, it has no egress. Sad to just have to remove the frame of the door then add it back in after the final.
 
Thanks for the replies. Pretty much what I figured. I've read the ACI and there is a flyer that the county has put out for cold weather pours. I guess every inspectors has his or her idea of jurisdiction. Ultimately it's my responsibility as the builder to make sure things are done correctly.
As far as the "bedroom", I could see if the room had any chance of being an actual legal bedroom but it doesn't, it has no egress. Sad to just have to remove the frame of the door then add it back in after the final.


Talk nicely to that person’s supervisor, if more than a one horse town.


Or, and the person who reviewed the plans
 
I could see if the room had any chance of being an actual legal bedroom but it doesn't, it has no egress.
This makes no sense.

The "wildlife crossing" sign is not there to direct the wildlife of where to cross the road. It is there because the wildlife decide where to cross so we respond with safety measures.

A legal bedroom does not have required features to direct people where to sleep. Features are required because people sleep where it looks good to sleep so we respond with safety measures.

It's like saying that removing the required seat belts from your car means it's no longer a car and so all is good.

No worries though, do was you wish. Can you do anything to make it appear less bedroomish? Less attractive to use as a bedroom? Glass french doors? How big is the house? How many bedrooms does it already have? You may be able to argue a bedroom-like office in a home with 6 bedrooms better than you can a home with only 2. It is less likely to be used a bedroom in the former case.
 
I had a similar scenario with an art studio/closet off of a garage. It was never meant to be a bedroom....and not allowed to be a bedroom off of a garage with only one door, so the jurisdiction required the owner to amend their deed stating that the room was not to be used as a bedroom. This way future owners are aware of the requirement also.
 
it has no egress. Sad to just have to remove the frame of the door then add it back in after the final.

I would want to say okay to that as long as you promised to be the only person sleeping there. The problem with that is that you are not trustworthy.
 
Just makes no sense

He takes away the closet
1. It is now legal to have the room
2. Said room is not a bedroom


No wonder Conarb rages against the machine
 
"I have read the 2015 revision that states that a closet in a room makes that room a bedroom."

What more do you need to know? Where you live, that's the regulation. End of story. Don't bother asking questions.
 
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I treat this situation the same was as the local inspector did, and Glenn's explanation is right on.
Yes, you cannot control peoples behavior but it is a little nudge towards not using that room as a bedroom.
 
It's all a little crazy. Someone could sleep in their laundry room or kitchen or living room. It used to be a closet had to have a rod and a shelf. Smile and nod, change it later.
The only other time I had run into this is when I was building homes with septic fields and they wouldn't perk for the number of bedrooms in the home.
What gets me is Realtors and some builders call rooms "bedrooms" that don't come close to meeting the requirements just to get the value up. I'm not using it as a bedroom, never will and don't intend to advertise it as one if I ever sell the home. Common sense doesn't really apply.
 
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