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Break Room appliances/counter height vs ADA

If the church host dinners that they charge for or cooks hot dogs and hamburgers for sale at events then we consider it to be commercial use. Or in other words if they are using like the office kitchen to heat up or cook an employees meal than it is not commercial. Any other use, it is commercial. I am sure you have seen churches pumping out over a hundred meals at events.
 
Most of those churches that do pump out meals like that don't do it on a four burner stove top, or the vast majority of the food is prepared in 20 kitchens from familys in the congregation and it is brought in to be reheated.
 
brudgers said:
Non-commercial. So no hood according to your rationale. You've even got someone applying it.
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Residental appliances, Non-commercial use, No type 1 or type 2 hood.
 
mark handler said:
Residental appliances, Non-commercial use, No type 1 or type 2 hood.
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So if they break out a dozen "Fry Baby's" from Walmart, no hood is required?
 
brudgers said:
Yeah, it's not like it's an assembly occupancy.
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It is just not like you to throw commonsense out the window. :pitty Milton would be so disappointed.:roll:
 
gbhammer said:
It is just not like you to throw commonsense out the window. :pitty Milton would be so disappointed.:roll:
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Milton wasn't much for the "Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" approach to life safety.

Cooking is a common source of fires, lead goblin figurines are not.
 
mark handler said:
I don't misquote people
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I didn't misquote you. I did point out that you are misapplying the code in a way which significantly increases the life safety hazard in various commercial occupancies.

In every circumstance you describe, a stove and range are unnecessary.

They only become necessary when one expects to do more than warm up a can of soup.

E.g. cook a duck for the holiday party.
 
brudgers said:
I didn't misquote you. I did point out that you are misapplying the code in a way which significantly increases the life safety hazard in various commercial occupancies.

In every circumstance you describe, a stove and range are unnecessary.

They only become necessary when one expects to do more than warm up a can of soup.

E.g. cook a duck for the holiday party.
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Misapplying the code?

What part of "commercial food service establishment " is misapplied?

Just because something is unnecessary, does not mean they are prohibited or restricted.

Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes, require hoods.

Just because a domestic cooking appliance is in a commercial building, does not mean it is being used for commercial purposes.

Not Misapplying the code
 
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brudgers said:
Milton wasn't much for the "Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" approach to life safety.Cooking is a common source of fires, lead goblin figurines are not.
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That has to be about as obstinate and silly as I have ever seen you be just IMO
 
mark handler said:
Misapplying the code? What part of "commercial food service establishment " is misapplied?
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The definition, duh. What part of "shall include any..." don't you understand?
 
Ben

You are Obviously not providing your clients with best advice.

And not following Milton's Rule.
 
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mark handler said:
Ben You are Obviously not providing your clients with best advice. And not following Milton's Rule.
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Well, if "You can get away with it" is your idea of the best advice, then I understand where you are coming from. Over the 40 year life of a building, there are more than 80,000 working hours.

That's a long time time to bet against a fire.

Some things are temporary.

Stoves are not.

I'm not going to design one into a commercial structure without a hood.

If it costs me a project, whootee****.

I also don't design while ignoring accessibility.

Even though clients can get away with that, too.
 
brudgers said:
That's why there are hotpots and microwaves.
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Microwave Ovens are much safer than ranges....

Fires Involving Microwave Ovens

During 2004-2008, U.S. fire departments responded to an average of 7,000 home structure fires per

year in which a microwave oven was involved in ignition. These fires caused an annual average of

two civilian deaths, 140 civilian injuries, and $22 million in direct property damage.

• One in every five (19%) of microwave oven home structure fires cited

appliance housing or casing as the item first ignited.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Microwavefactsheet.pdf

Ben, are you going to require hoods over them? they are a residential appliance used in commercial building....
 
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brudgers said:
No I am not.
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INTERESTING

507.2.3 Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes. Domestic cooking appliances utilized for commercial purposes shall be provided with Type I or Type II hoods as required for the type of appliances and processes in accordance with Sections 507.2,507.2.1 and 507.2.2.

507.2 Where required. A Type I or Type II hood shall be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances...
 
It's not commerical cooking establishment; controls need to be accessible if it's an accessible space.
 
mark handler said:
INTERESTING 507.2.3 Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes. Domestic cooking appliances utilized for commercial purposes shall be provided with Type I or Type II hoods as required for the type of appliances and processes in accordance with Sections 507.2,507.2.1 and 507.2.2. 507.2 Where required. A Type I or Type II hood shall be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances...
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Mark, microwaves are specifically listed as an exception.
 
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