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Builders Driving Me Insane 2009 Windbracing

Mule

Mule

REGISTERED
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
1,520
Location
Texas
I'm pulling my hair out getting the DP's here in Texas to understand what needs to be submitted.

Just got off the phone with a DP, you guys are going to love this!

DP: Since the prevailing wind is from the South, all I have to worry about is one wall!

ME: Ummm...no! You need windbracing on all exterior walls. And the back wall of the structure....where are you installing the windbracing so that you don't exceed 25 feet without any windbracing and you have a wall of windows that spans around 40 feet without any form of windbracing.

DP: 25 feet???? Where did that come from?

ME: It's been in the code for several years now!

DP: Well I was under the impression that if the structure was continually sheathed that there wouldn't be any problems.

ME: Normally not, however you have a problem with the wall of windows in the back AND you have not submitted a set of plans showing compliance.

DP: (silence for several seconds)

ME: How about you come down here tomorrow and I'll give you an idea on what to submit.

DP: Okay.......

By the way...DP's are not required to have any kind of license in Texas if they are doing residential.
 
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Mule,

I think they refer to people like you as "enablers".

End the insanity. If they don't know how it is or what is the basic min., tell them they need either another building designer or an architect/engineer to help him out.
 
Jeff,

I actually have that saved to my computer. I myself learned a lot from that document.

rktect 1,

Sometimes you have to show people just how smart they aren't!
 
"You need windbracing on all exterior walls. And the back wall of the structure....where are you installing the windbracing so that you don't exceed 25 feet without any windbracing and you have a wall of windows that spans around 40 feet without any form of windbracing."

One problem with AHJs is that they confuse the prescriptions in the code with code requirements.

The code requires a certain robustness against a 90mph wind.

The prescriptions are ways to accomplish that. But most engineers can produce code compliant designs with windows that span 40' without the prescriptive windbracing.

---

That checklist that jar546 posted should have a second option - hire an engineer.
 
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GHRoberts said:
One problem with AHJs is that they confuse the prescriptions in the code with code requirements. That checklist that jar546 posted should have a second option - hire an engineer.
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pwood said:
i have to agree with the mysterious stranger george on this one:mrgreen:.
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I'm no engineer, but if A=B, and B=C, then A=C.

Engineers' opinions should have a second option - you may not need an engineer, check with your ahj to determine if there is a prescriptive solution.
 
Meet with the DP, building superintendent and the builder this AM. They realize the problem now and will correct the problem. The only way to fix the back wall with the 40 foot bank of windows will be with an engineer. The builder looked at his DP and told him...looks like you need to address this problem at design to head off any problems.
 
90 mph is pretty much the minimum you need to design to. Lots of window suck, but the DESIGNER should be able to overcome that with proper placement of the braced walls. . which can be interior or exterior. Interior braced walls break up the exterior wall requirements.
 
The very unfortunate part is this all happened while I was off work. I had some surgery on my foot and was out for two weeks. The staff issued a permit without requiring any plans on the windbracing. NOTE: We just adopted the 2009 at the end of the year and this was the first set of house plans we received.

The foundation was poured and the walls were being framed. So there are several problems we are going to have to work through. No beams under any perpendicular walls close to where they need them. Within that bank of windows are two sets of bay windows. One set in a bedroom and one set in the living room. The only thing separating these two sets is the wall between the bedroom and living room...a total wall space of around 12". In the living room adjacent to the bay windows are another bank of windows, 3070's then a door leading outside. Over the living room is a 2nd story.

Yes we are in the 90mph zone and Catagory B area.

Houston...we have a problem!
 
Oh Mule welcome to my world

In RI we adopted IRC 2000 in 2002

It was the first time 100 percent of our builders and inspectors heard of hurricane force winds.

pre 2002 the wind speed was listed as 90MPH statewide

despite the 18 year occurence rate and the 5 year darn near hurricane Nor Easter - Had 90 MPH sustained near shore three weeks ago

the NOAA maps have us at 100 , 110 and 120 north to south so SUPRISE SUPRISE

In Spite of annual education one and trwo day free seminars in 2002 , 2003, ... 2009 to some its still new.

DP's registration here is the same. Lemur Design group is still permitted to prepare single family Prescriptive plans.

If only they could read the code.

Try t
 
Mule said:
The DP for this builder does not even have a code book!
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Which is why you need to cite specific code sections with vague descriptions with what needs to be corrected and let them know to purchase a copy or head to a local library.
 
Mule said:
The staff issued a permit without requiring any plans on the windbracing.
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As I understand the facts:

This is custom home with a buyer in hand.

The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.

The problems were caused by a mistake at the AHJ's office.

---

Get everyone to agree to build under the prior code.
 
Mule said:
It's been in the code for several years now!
Click to expand...
Mule said:
NOTE: We just adopted the 2009 at the end of the year and this was the first set of house plans we received.
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GHRoberts said:
As I understand the facts:This is custom home with a buyer in hand.

The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.

The problems were caused by a mistake at the AHJ's office.

---

Get everyone to agree to build under the prior code.
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I agree with GH, but am unclear on the valididy of his second claim. Also, I am assuming a difficult, expensive fix at this point.

Man, thru plan review to half-framed in two weeks on a custom. They don't mess around in Mule's ahj.
 
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rktect1 stated:

Which is why you need to cite specific code sections with vague descriptions withwhat needs to be corrected and let them know to purchase a copy or head to a local library.
Click to expand...
A high per centage of the time, this is not possible. Because of the "political influences" involved, a lot of code officials cannot say anything, but "Thank you! May I please have another!" Unfortunately, to remain employed, the code officials have to remain silent and continue being a scratched record repeating the same discrepancies, ..time after time after time after time.Why do think that the DP's & contractors do not have code books in the first place? Because they don't have to! We code officials are fighting a continuously uphill battle. Most AHJ's adopt the various codes with no; or very little, intention to enforce them. It's politically appealing!
 
GHRoberts said:
As I understand the facts:This is custom home with a buyer in hand.

The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.

The problems were caused by a mistake at the AHJ's office.

---

Get everyone to agree to build under the prior code.
Click to expand...
You are correct on some of your assumptions.

The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.

No, not really, the back wall with the bank of windows did not have any room for the required windbracing every 25 feet.

The problems were caused by a mistake at the AHJ's office.

Yes and no. Yes we did screw up.

NO we should not have issued the permit. We DID notify every builder about the code changes several months prior to the adoption of the codes and when these changes were going into affect. We handed out a packet with most of the major changes that effected new construction. We issued the permit on 12/15/2010

This was handed to them in June 2010

I think we did everything we could to make them aware of the changes.

Notice to All Contractors

The Inspection Department recently adopted the 2009 International Building Codes and the 2008 National Electrical Code. These codes will go into affect on December 2nd, 2010.

Attached are some of the major changes to the codes.

If you need any help with any interpretations with the codes please contact.......
 
Mule said:
By the way...DP's are not required to have any kind of license in Texas if they are doing residential.
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Without a license, they're not a design professional.
 
Is this your opinion or a law somewhere on the books? There isn't a law in Texas that requires a person to be licensed to design SFR.
 
Mule:

I agree with Brudgers, if they aren’t licenced by the state, they aren’t professionals, that’s just MHO, biased though it may be. The term professional has been thrown around so loosely that it no longer has its old, original meaning. We’ve all heard of grade inflation at schools, grade school through vo-tech and college; so we must now have title inflation too. The persons you are loosely talking about as “DP’s” are drafters, design persons, they are not Architects by any stretch of the imagination; there are some technicians and drafters who can do a little engineering with the proper guidance, that does not make them Engineers and certainly not Professional Engineers. I believe that most states talk in terms of most SFR’s not requiring an Architect’s or an Engineer’s involvement in their design, as long as they are designed and built to the code. Providing drafting services is quite a different thing than providing Professional Architectural or Engineering services. And, because these persons can run a CAD program which comes with a bunch of pre-packaged, generally acceptable, construction details, doesn’t even make them designers. They’re just plan drawers, some of them are just computer jockeys who couldn’t do it from actual experience or without the computer.

And, by the way, I’ve dealt with some Architects (AIA) and Engineers (PE’s) over the years who I wouldn’t want working in my office, for their lack of real qualifications and thinking abilities. And, I have had some draftsmen and technicians working for me, over the years, who’s engineering judgement I trusted much more than some other engineer’s judgement or output which I have had to deal with.
 
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