Building Permit Card Expiration

[ICE]

I'm not a lawyer, so I won't even attempt to discuss the legal issues that might attach to "resolving" a permit that doesn't exist.

I figured it out. It’s not something that I can teach.

 

[jar546]

I know that you guys mean well but you don’t understand the realities that I deal with. There was a time when inspectors were rotated from one area to another. I inherited file cabinets with more old “Expired” permits than active permits. Where is the benefit in expiring permits instead of getting them resolved?

The code does say shall. The codes are full of shalls . Do you always follow that particular letter of that law? Does the word shall put your brain in idle? Wait a minute here you guys are Jeff and the Yankee and you do.

Realities? Let's look at the Palm Beach County Building Department, a somewhat comparable county. LA County is one of the largest in the US, and PBC is the largest in Florida. PBC averages anywhere from 800-1200 inspections per day and issues, on average, between 50k-60k permits a year, which does NOT count sub-permits such as MEPs. The bottom line is that those are some huge numbers. It's not quite LAC, but certainly up there. Like my little town, 30 days before a permit expires, a notice is sent via email to the applicant warning them of the upcoming expiration. This is also posted on the customer portal. In addition, they work closely with Code Enforcement to help resolve these expired permits. So they are actually trying.

Additionally, in Florida, after 6 years, we are allowed to administratively close out expired permits that are not life safety. We don't actively do that, we do that on a case-by-case basis for small things, if necessary, that doesn't involve life safety.

 

[jar546]

So how do you prove the work was suspended or abandoned for 180 days?

Because they did not pass an inspection for 180 days, technically, the word is approved in Chapter 1, so we allow partial approvals to extend the permit.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

So how do you prove the work was suspended or abandoned for 180 days?

No calls for inspection.

 

[ICE]

LA County has been on a paperless permitting system for almost two years. I am not sure that the entire county is on board with it but that is the goal. There is a system that will trigger a notice to permit holders when the permit is getting moldy. How that will work in the wilds of LA County is anybody's guess.

That will not help with the thousands (note that it is plural) of old permits. I found permits that were thirty years old, permits for buildings that are gone, expensive permits for jobs that never started and more for jobs that never finished. You know it's not like I never expired a permit. If I could spur action or find an innocent reason why the permit is still in the file cabinet, well I felt a duty to get it done without causing a shltstorm.

For example, the room addition didn't get a final inspection because the contractor bailed and cousin Edgar finished the job. At final a correction was written to install smoke alarms and the alarms were not installed , the contractor was paid and gone and the owner was not even aware that there was a correction written....and by the way, that was seven years ago and it's a new owner.

So what do I do in these cases? Do I make them get a new permit? Or can I make this as painless as possible. In the old days I could get the alarms installed and final the permit. Now and then a management sort would come to me with a question about an eleven year old permit that I just signed final. They usually only did that once.

The new paperless system has a new computer program to go with it. I suppose I would have issues in the administration of Tiger code. So now the bean counters that we call inspectors will see that "Shall" and unload on the oblivious.

We had, and might still have a rule that if a job is not started and no inspection has taken place....well you can get a refund for almost all of it except the plan check fee. More than a few times I went for an inspection only to discover that what they were up to was technically infeasible. They can't do the proposed project and they can't have a refund because they requested an inspection. There's a "Shall" involved with this. I would call the office and cancel the inspection. Of course that manager would come to me and ask if I had made any inspections before he would approve the refund. I would look him in the eye and say, "My memory isn't that good. What did the customer say?"

 

[Inspector Gadget]

No calls for inspection.

I spent 11 years building a stone house by hand. We have winter. One does not set stone in winter.
Some builds take a long time between inspection points.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I spent 11 years building a stone house by hand. We have winter. One does not set stone in winter.
Some builds take a long time between inspection points.

At my old job we had a guy who was building his own house, while also working a full-time job. We just told him to call us out at least once every six months to keep his permit active.

 

[steveray]

Because they did not pass an inspection for 180 days, technically, the word is approved in Chapter 1, so we allow partial approvals to extend the permit.

No calls for inspection.

I will beat that in court every time...One nail (or in IG case), one stone in 180 days is activity and not "suspended or abandoned"....Not likely to get to court and if you refund their fee to the "unused" portion, there are no actual damages, but anyway....

 

[Inspector Gadget]

At my old job we had a guy who was building his own house, while also working a full-time job. We just told him to call us out at least once every six months to keep his permit active.

For some reason - the building officials believed that I was keeping things active.

There's a funny story about the ... relationship ... I have with the inspectors in question.

When I put interior posts in, I used post anchors. I got everthing wiggled and jiggled into place, then zapped a wood screw into the post to hold it in position while I wiggled and jiggled elsewhere, working on making sure the posts were (a) vertical and (b) at the correct distances. Then I cross-braced, and started doing various floor-type joist-installation things.

About two months later, I'm having a break and look at the posts. Still had wood screws.
"I better fix that, pronto," I said to The Lady. "Because regardless of which of my guys come to do the inspection, you just KNOW they'd love to find something like that to write me up on."

Two months later, I realize I hadn't fixed it.

Took me six months to bolt and nail like I'm s'posed to.

It's an instructive lesson: even if we know what we're supposed to be doing, and why, it might not get done.

But I double-double checked *everything* since I knew that either of my guys would take particular glee in finding a glitch and writing me up for it.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I will beat that in court every time...One nail (or in IG case), one stone in 180 days is activity and not "suspended or abandoned"....Not likely to get to court and if you refund their fee to the "unused" portion, there are no actual damages, but anyway....

Understood. Any work is work. We weren't asking that the guy complete any phase, just that someone could do an eyeball on the job every six months to verify that something had been done to keep the permit alive.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Understood. Any work is work. We weren't asking that the guy complete any phase, just that someone could do an eyeball on the job every six months to verify that something had been done to keep the permit alive.

If one of my files is dormant - no call, whatever - in three months, I go there.

Don't you guys do spot inspections? I find 30-40 per cent of the problems during "hey, I was in the area" visits....

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Don't you guys do spot inspections? I find 30-40 per cent of the problems during "hey, I was in the area" visits....

No. First because we don't have enough time, and second because people would complain that we're harassing them.

 

[SCBO1]

I'm aware of a project that the local banks would not loan on for fear of loan failure. I'm no longer there, but believe the house was going on ten years of construction and may have had some incomplete areas.

 

[steveray]

And our State closes all residential permits after 9 years anyway...

R105.5.1​

Pursuant to subsection (c) of section 29-265 of the Connecticut General Statutes, 9 years from the date of issuance of a building permit issued pursuant to section 29-263 for construction or alteration of a one-family dwelling, two-family dwelling or structure located on the same parcel as a one-family dwelling or two-family dwelling, for which construction or alteration a certificate of occupancy, as defined in the regulations adopted pursuant to section 29-252, has not been issued by the building official, such building permit shall be deemed closed.

 

[rktect 1]

We fixed that issue. The Village about 20 years ago amended the building code, and it has carried over each new adoption, so that each permit is only good for one year after it has been issued. A first extension can be applied for allowing up to six more months to complete the project with no fees. However, any 2nd or more extensions for another six months each cost 25% of the original permit fee.

You would think that would motivate people but nope, not so much. I am currently sitting on 20 active 1st, 2nd, 3rd and one 4th extension. People turn these permits into life long projects or at least full time careers around here.

 

[jar546]

I will beat that in court every time...One nail (or in IG case), one stone in 180 days is activity and not "suspended or abandoned"....Not likely to get to court and if you refund their fee to the "unused" portion, there are no actual damages, but anyway....

Too complicated. You either pass an inspection, or the permit expires. Your state may be different. The software systems expire the permit automatically if there is not an inspection that passes. This has been time-tested for decades in Florida.