Building Separation

[nononsense]

I have a new type II-B building with a type V-B existing building 18 feet away on the same property, both building are “E” occupancy.

Am I interpreting the ICC (2006) table 602 correctly in that I don’t need to rate the exterior wall of the new building? If not what am I missing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cda]

Re: Building Separation

welcome

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Building Separation

You need to assume a property line between the buildings. If the existing V-B does not have a one hour rated exterior wall then place the assumed property line at 10'1" out this leaves 7'11" from the assumed property line to the new II-B building. Table 602 states less than 10' but = or greater than 5' requires a one hour exterior wall

 

[texasbo]

Re: Building Separation

Nononsense,

Thanks for coming to this board for help. It's good to see we're getting some outside traffic.

You may also check to see if the aggregate area of both buildings is within the allowable area for V-B. Then you could consider them a single building, and not have to worry about separation and wall/opening protection.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Building Separation

Am I interpreting the ICC (2006) table 602 correctly in that I don’t need to rate the exterior wall of the new building? If not what am I missing..

An architect.

 

[fatboy]

Re: Building Separation

I agree with texasbo, two buildings, same lot, if allowable area works for most restrictive, then consider it one building.........

 

[EPrice]

Re: Building Separation

One caution. If the areas of the buildings are such that you can consider them to be one building and not rate the walls, then I believe the total area of the two buildings needs to be used when applying 903.2.2.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Building Separation

Fire area is defined by exterior walls.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Building Separation

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:

1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

 

[fatboy]

Re: Building Separation

no and no

EDIT: After texasbo's excellent answer, I will finish mine. I don't have the credentials to design a facility, but I do have plenty for offering advice, such as a CBCO and a CFCO. There's a mountain of difference between advice and and actully designing. Lighten up, nobody's taking work from you.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Building Separation

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Among the numerous state licenses, professional certifications, and other credentials I hold, two of them are ICC Certified Building Official and Plans Examiner. Even without those credentials, I would meet all requirements to offer construction code advice on this forum to those asking for help.

That's why I'm here.

You?

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Separation

brudgers wrote:

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:

NO and NO

Offering design advice in an “official” capacity is a slippery slope.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Building Separation

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Among the numerous state licenses, professional certifications, and other credentials I hold, two of them are ICC Certified Building Official and Plans Examiner. Even without those credentials, I would meet all requirements to offer construction code advice on this forum to those asking for help.

That's why I'm here.

You?

Well the reason for my question is that if the existing construction is typical of (but not necessary for) Type VB construction, and the new building necessitates type IIB construction, the common suggestion that they can be treated as two buildings on the same lot is most likely impractical.

Of course impractical advice on the internet is quite common, but in this case there is some evidence that the OP is a bit over their head and in need of a design professional...If the combined buildings could be classified as VB then it is difficult to judge the OP competent when they have classified the new construction as IIB.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Building Separation

brudgers wrote:

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:

NO and NO

Offering design advice in an “official” capacity is a slippery slope.

I thought everybody in Oregon was qualified to design buildings.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Building Separation

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Among the numerous state licenses, professional certifications, and other credentials I hold, two of them are ICC Certified Building Official and Plans Examiner. Even without those credentials, I would meet all requirements to offer construction code advice on this forum to those asking for help.

That's why I'm here.

You?

Well the reason for my question is that if the existing construction is typical of (but not necessary for) Type VB construction, and the new building necessitates type IIB construction, the common suggestion that they can be treated as two buildings on the same lot is most likely impractical.

Of course impractical advice on the internet is quite common, but in this case there is some evidence that the OP is a bit over their head and in need of a design professional...If the combined buildings could be classified as VB then it is difficult to judge the OP competent when they have classified the new construction as IIB.

Understood. However, based on my experience with those not intimately familiar with the codes, it would not surprise me at all if they just arbitrarily assigned a construction type based on the materials used in the new building.

And just as impractical advice is common on the internet, so is sarcasm, pretentiousness, condescention, and arrogance. If in fact the OP is a bit over their head, then that is probably why they came here asking for help in the first place. And some of us are here for precisely that reason; to help people understand the code and offer our expertise and years of experience to help them with their problems. Architects, engineers, and designers are faced with myriad issues, and (despite what you and I do and see on a daily basis) the codes are just a portion of those issues. If they can come here and get advice/interpretations from code experts, then I applaud them, and will help them in any way possible.

Many in the design/construction industry don't know the intricacies of the codes, and if they come here for help, then the least we can do is point them in the right direction. What they do from that point is up to them.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Building Separation

brudgers wrote:

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:

NO and NO

Offering design advice in an “official” capacity is a slippery slope.

HUH???!!! Who said ANYTHING about offering design advice? Who said anything about "official" capacity? What do you think this forum is all about?

What about offering code advice in a "non official" capacity on an internet forum? Is that a slippery slope? If so, then this entire website, and most of your posts, are lubed up slicker than Rick (just kidding around here, Rick) Astoria's keyboard...

Are you guys actually saying that as building professionals, you don't think we should give building code advice on a building code forum? Are you serious? Have you read any of your own posts? Am I the only one who thinks this is all a little...crazy?

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Separation

texasbo wrote;

HUH???!!! Who said ANYTHING about offering design advice? Who said anything about "official" capacity? What do you think this forum is all about?What about offering code advice in a "non official" capacity on an internet forum? Is that a slippery slope? If so, then this entire website, and most of your posts, are lubed up slicker than Rick (just kidding around here, Rick) Astoria's keyboard...

Are you guys actually saying that as building professionals, you don't think we should give building code advice on a building code forum? Are you serious? Have you read any of your own posts? Am I the only one who thinks this is all a little...crazy?

Do you even read what is posted before you start running your keyboard?? :roll:

what brudgers wrote:

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:

texasbo, can you see the words code officials and design advice in the question :lol: :lol:

brudgers wrote;

I thought everybody in Oregon was qualified to design buildings

one could think that from reading some of these post

 

[fatboy]

Re: Building Separation

OK folks, let's back it up a bit. The OP asked a specific question, and a few answers were put forth. If you want to start a thread about qualifications, then do so. That's not what this thread was about. My last reply was borderline, as to what the OP was about. Let's not turn this into a "garage door header".

 

[texasbo]

Re: Building Separation

texasbo wrote;

HUH???!!! Who said ANYTHING about offering design advice? Who said anything about "official" capacity? What do you think this forum is all about?What about offering code advice in a "non official" capacity on an internet forum? Is that a slippery slope? If so, then this entire website, and most of your posts, are lubed up slicker than Rick (just kidding around here, Rick) Astoria's keyboard...

Are you guys actually saying that as building professionals, you don't think we should give building code advice on a building code forum? Are you serious? Have you read any of your own posts? Am I the only one who thinks this is all a little...crazy?

Do you even read what is posted before you start running your keyboard?? :roll:

what brudgers wrote:

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:1. Do you hold the required credentials to design an educational facility in your jurisdiction?

2. Would you accept plans for an educational facility from a person lacking such credentials in your jurisdiction?

Just out of curiosity, for those Code Officials offering design advice:

texasbo, can you see the words code officials and design advice in the question :lol: :lol:

brudgers wrote;

I thought everybody in Oregon was qualified to design buildings

one could think that from reading some of these post [/quote:2fimjnv4]

Uh, yeah; I saw it in his question, and I saw in your post. Strangely, that's the only two places I've seen it. That's kinda my point.

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Separation

texasbo I don't see any point to your point, but somehow I get the point that you consider this a forum that appears to predicate the notion that somehow you’re the code “expert” and this code forum is to enable non-professionals the opportunity to come and get “expert” code design advice. My understanding of the focal point of this code forum was for code discussions, exchange of various code interpretations, questions asked and answered from code officials and generally to be used as a learning tool primarily for building code officials and end users. I don’t see it has a tool for non-professionals to come and get building code design advice or to be used as a format for non-professionals to sell their non-professional expertise.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Building Separation

4 of us answered the OP question with 2 different code solutions and advice on things to consider when looking at which one to choose. No different than pre-job meeting I have sat in on. The assumption that has been made is nononsense is a Designer when he may be new to the plan review or is working in a small (one man/woman) office and is looking for advice on what to look for.

Lets try and stick to answering the OP's and stay off of the rabbit trails

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Separation

mtlogcabin wrote'

Lets try and stick to answering the OP's and stay off of the rabbit trails4 of us answered the OP question with 2 different code solutions and advice on things to consider when looking at which one to choose. No different than pre-job meeting I have sat in on. The assumption that has been made is nononsense is a Designer when he may be new to the plan review or is working in a small (one man/woman) office and is looking for advice on what to look for.

Lets try and stick to answering the OP's and stay off of the rabbit trails

Here your making a statement that the assumption is: when I don't see that any assumption was made about the op's position rather a question was asked by brudgers and some took off on a tangent about some mysterious assumptions they made, perhaps before taking the blue pill?

yea: lets try to read what is posted before making these wild leaps and posting responses that are all over the field.

 

[jar546]

Re: Building Separation

We are way off topic. There is an area on this board for design professionals. Lets not get personal and start a new thread where it belongs.

This forum is for all people, there is no way to actually know who is posting here.

If anyone wants to offer advice, then I applaud them. It is encouraged.

Those who post here still have to go through the permit, plan review and inspection process in the jurisdiction they are performing work.

 

[fatboy]

Re: Building Separation

BINGO!