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C-2 zoning

Discussion in 'Planning and Zoning' started by Jrrichards1775, May 12, 2016.

  1. Jrrichards1775

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    I have this peice of property in my jurisdiction that is zoned C-2. The land owner wants to make it an outdoor event area. There is not structures on the property. He's put up a 6' wire fence.

    He wants to build a stage like a wood deck type stage or flat area as the property is a little sloped. He only wants it a foot high or so.

    I can't find any use in our zoning that would come close to fitting his situation in any zone Class.

    The retired building official denied them a permit to build that deck because it's not attached to a structure. I can't find anywhere where it says it has to be attached to a structure. And also mention he would need to have facilities on the property. But has a business 2 lots up that they can access.

    And suggestions on where to find if he really can do this or can't.

    It would Benifit the city and will be a great addition to the city. The owner of the land is a business owner of a restaurant that is 2 lots up but he doesn't own the lot in he middle.
     
  2. JBI

    JBI Registered User

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    jrrichards1775,
    This is not a Building Code question, though the construction of a permanent stage would be regulated in the Building Code. The answer to your question is in the Zoning Law, and only a thorough read of that will allow you to find the answer.
    Many Zoning Laws have language addressing uses not specifically listed.
    Parks and outdoor recreational facilities land in unusual places in Zoning Laws. Unless you can post the entire ordinance only someone with access could help you find it.
    Another avenue would be to seek an interpretation from the Zoning Board of Appeals (by whatever name it has...), they are the ultimate arbiters of the Zoning Law anyway.
     
  3. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    SECTION 3103 TEMPORARY STRUCTURES
    "A occupancy" outdoor event
    you will also need restrooms and exiting
     
  4. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    I am contemplating moving this to Zoning but I can see it has a little bit of both. Thoughts?
     
  5. JBI

    JBI Registered User

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    The question was about how to apply a Zoning classification, not which chapter would regulate construction.
     
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  6. RickAstoria

    RickAstoria -------------------

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    I agree with what others have said. Lets teach you a couple things. You may often hear colloqially spoken "codes" as an umbrella for all things from zoning/land use regulations to building codes. Codes is shorthand for administrative code or code of regulations and this applies to building codes and zoning laws. However, you should be careful in assuming one is the other. Each city and county/parish adopts their own local laws. In which case, every city has their own adopted zoning. When it comes to building codes, this gets a bit trickier. In some states, this is adopted statewide. For example, Oregon has a state wide adopted building codes. Cities & Counties/Parishes within a state will administer the enforcement of the building codes. However, this isn't always the case. In some places, you file to the state office or a regional office for the state department/agency in charge. However, zoning laws are separate regulations.

    Lets stake a moment to understand what is building codes and what is zoning code or zoning laws. This is my brief, cursory take on it. There are many facets I can not elaborate on it all. Others can perhaps be more eloquent than I.

    Zoning laws is about defining what a person may do on a particular piece of land and what kind of buildings and uses are permitted. Henceforth, they are LAND USE laws. Zoning laws also will defined things like how tall can a building or structure be without requiring a variance. They may defined buildable areas, setbacks and other such requirements. Think of it as land-use and development planning regulations. This is so a neighbor building on an adjacent vacant lot that is in a residential zoned property just can't build a skyscraper that is out of place. This is founded on the principle that what a person does on ones own property has a social impact that affects others.

    Building Codes is less about use of a land or property but about defining use/occupancy of a building or spaces within a building, structural requirements, load requirements, etc. It is focused on how a building is to be built, defining occupant load, means of egress, number of exits, life, health, safety and sanitation standards of buildings and to some extent other structures.

    Yes, there is an inter-play of zoning codes/laws and building codes. Sometimes when designing a building or structure, you are identifying a land use intent. Therefore, both departments (building departments with the building code official/inspectors/plan reviewers & the zoning department with the zoning regulations official for the city/county) works together. In my personal experience, Counties tends to call it land-use regulations and cities call it zoning laws. For the most party, its the same thing. Buildings codes are however different. Where I am, whenever you are proposing work requiring a permit, it is always checked with the zoning. Both departments works together. They are separate but they work together.

    This is because often whatever is being proposed requiring a building permit will often have some requirements reflecting the zoning laws.

    Both regulations recognizes we live in a world with other people and what we do is a social act. Land Use and Designing/Constructing buildings is a social act. We impact each other. It is ultimately for the purpose of people living and co-existing with each other. it isn't about neighbors controlling what their neighbors do. It is a balance between individual property owner's rights and rights of a community. It isn't one or the other. It is a balancing of both.

    As for the retired building official, does he have any legal authority anymore? I don't know. The building official and zoning officials are often separate individuals but it isn't uncommon for the same person serving both roles and essentially have one department. Especially in a very small community.

    None of us can really help you answer zoning from building codes. However, it should be recognized that zoning and building codes are separate regulations.

    I'm based in Astoria, Oregon.

    Without knowing the exact location and the regulations applicable to the area, we can't help much because it would be guessing. In addition, many of us are in different locations with different regulations in effect. What applies where I am doesn't necessarily apply to where you are unless we happen to be in the same town.

    From my understanding, C-2 probably refers to a commercial zone. There are common conventions of letters like C referring to Commercial and R referring to residential and so forth. There is some loose standardization.

    Another thing that is also important to understand is zoning classification (in the zoning laws) and occupancy classification (in the building codes) are two distinct classifications serving different purposes for two distinct separate regulations. This forum is about building codes but occasionally we can address zoning but remember, you are asking questions on a forum by people all over the place and not just your city/town.
     
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  7. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Sounds similar to a food truck lot?

    What type of events does he want to go there ???

    Do you have something like a special use permit??
     
  8. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Do you want to post a link to your zoning categories or post them on the thread

    With discribtors
     
  9. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    It is more than both . It is a Planning, building and a fire issue.
     
  10. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Why??????????
     
  11. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    There are building, fire and zoning code issues
     
  12. Jrrichards1775

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    Thank you guys for the help.
    http://travelersrest.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/TR-zoning-ordinance.pdf

    CDA This is our zoning ordinance if anyone wants to interpret.

    Also CDA they are wanting to have a verity of events such as bands, music, bbq, catered food and maybe even weddings.

    I'm thinking the building code would come into play with the building of the deck. And the requirements for restrooms and hand washing stations.
     
  13. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Not a zoning person but how about

    S-1
    Or
    PD-C

    Once zoning is established, than site plan, and any building permits required.


    Not sure why past BO would not let a platform be built.
    Seems like they could have poured a concrete slap if that would have met thier needs??
     
  14. JBI

    JBI Registered User

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    "Other uses which are considered to be compatible with the aforementioned uses" is the last listed use in the C-2 District and appears to be a nice catch-all. A simple determination that the proposal is (or is not) 'compatible' is all that would be required. Lacking that, or in the event someone doesn't agree with the determination, the Appeals Board could resolve with either an interpretation or a variance.
     
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  15. RickAstoria

    RickAstoria -------------------

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    That sounds about right. I wonder if "other uses which considered to be compatible with the aforementioned uses" is applicable.
    "Accessory buildings and uses customarily incidental to the above uses." - this one sounds like it could be applicable. Note that is says "Accessory buildings and USES customarily incidental to the above uses. However, this can be a problem, too. Usually for the element of accessory use in this case would almost have to have an adjacency condition. If the event area was adjacent to a property that involves the primary use then yes it could be. I think the real issue is probably not so much the zoning as the outdoor event area can be deemed accessory and incidental to a business that is adjacent. It kind of depend on use. I seen some things like this.

    I think I'll try to look at the original post about the platform/deck. Nothing in code necessarily requires the deck to be attached. There can be a number of factors effecting the decision. It seems like the retired B.O. made a denial on some code related matter.

    I don't know of code requirements necessarily prohibiting such a deck from being structurally INDEPENDENT and not being attached. I doubt that is necessarily the reason. There maybe issues of fire rating matters. Other issues can be egress or ADA related.
     
  16. Jrrichards1775

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    He wants to have like music events maybe weddings, cookout, pig roasting, bon fire type events
     
  17. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    I don't think that that use would be permitted in a C-2 Zone....The closest Zoning District that I could find was S-1.

    Also, you would have to have restroom facilities (within 500 feet max), accessible routes, parking, etc.

    The outdoor stage would most likely be classified as an A-5 assembly in the IBC and does have specific restroom requirements for the patronage

    If I was the owner of the lot in the middle, I sure would get tired of picking up everybody else's trash if they had to walk two lots down to go to the restroom in a restaurant that already has the restroom facilities count based upon its occupant load.


    I believe the retired building official was trying to prohibit a bad conceptual idea from impacting the adjacent property owners and may be aware of a Police issue.
     

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