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Carbon Monoxide Alarms

fj80

fj80

Sawhorse
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
230
Location
Virginia
IRC 2012 says carbon monoxide alarms are required in dwelling units with fuel-fired appliances.

Does "fuel-fired" appliances include wood-burning fireplaces? Or only gas fireplaces and other appliances?
 
Other than factory-built fireplaces, masonry heaters and inserts (stoves) where does it say solid-fuel fireplaces are appliances?

R315.1 Carbon monoxide alarms. For new construction, an approved carbon monoxide alarm shall be installed outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms in dwelling units within which fuel-fired appliances are installed and in dwelling units that have attached garages.

APPLIANCE. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements.

SECTION M1303

LABELING OF APPLIANCES

M1303.1 Label information. A permanent factory-applied nameplate(s) shall be affixed to appliances on which shall appear, in legible lettering, the manufacturer’s name or trademark, the model number, a serial number and the seal or mark of the testing agency. A label shall also include the following:

Sections not provided for brevity.
 
Good call FV!....But where does it say it is not? I would argue that it is a site built appliance with prescriptive requirements that preempt listing requirements...
 
Last edited:
IMC. Likes it for cooking

I have seen people cook marshmallows in their fireplace



SOLID FUEL (COOKING APPLICATIONS). Applicable to commercial food service operations only, solid fuel is any bulk material such as hardwood, mesquite, charcoal or briquettes that is combusted to produce heat for cooking operations.
 
steveray said:
Good call FV!....But where does it say it is not? I would argue that it is a site built appliance with prescriptive requirements that preempt listing requirements...
Click to expand...

We know that IRC is different than the IBC; however in referencing the 2015 IBC we can see the distinction is provided between an appliance and a fireplace. This discrepancy in the section provided below is from the 2015 edition. The IRC stays on course; does not include fireplace for the requirement.

The thing that lack common sense here is a fireplace is permitted in bedrooms but the carbon monoxide detector being required outside the bedroom may be a little too late to help. Presumably the concern is that a wood-burning fireplace, should it smoke, would wake up the sleeping inhabitants and, in any event, soon would go out if not refueled.

[F] 915.1.2 Fuel-burning appliances and fuel-burning fireplaces. Carbon monoxide detection shall be provided in dwelling units, sleeping units and classrooms that contain a fuel-burning appliance or a fuel-burning fireplace.
 
Francis Vineyard said:
We know that IRC is different than the IBC; however in referencing the 2015 IBC we can see the distinction is provided between an appliance and a fireplace. This discrepancy in the section provided below is from the 2015 edition. The IRC stays on course; does not include fireplace for the requirement.

The thing that lack common sense here is a fireplace is permitted in bedrooms but the carbon monoxide detector being required outside the bedroom may be a little too late to help. Presumably the concern is that a wood-burning fireplace, should it smoke, would wake up the sleeping inhabitants and, in any event, soon would go out if not refueled.

[F] 915.1.2 Fuel-burning appliances and fuel-burning fireplaces. Carbon monoxide detection shall be provided in dwelling units, sleeping units and classrooms that contain a fuel-burning appliance or a fuel-burning fireplace.
Click to expand...




never mind I see what field you are coming from now
 
Sorry FV, I think you are trying to be a little to literal. Ask some Fire Guys if they consider wood to be a fuel.

I know its "not code", but I grabbed my IRC 12 commentary (don't have a 15), and it lists wood burning stoves and fireplaces as possible C.O. leakage sources.

I'll do an ICE here, and say that they WILL install them here........... I think it is quite clear.
 
& ~ & ~ &


I will side with **Francis Vineyard** on this one, ...too literal or not !

We have language that is clear [ in the IRC ] differentiating what is an
"appliance" and what is a "fireplace."

The intent is to protect the occupants from smoke, whether they are
sleeping or not....AGREED !.......But because there is specific language
in the IRC [ RE: Section R102.1, `15 IRC ], then I would have to cite
that adopted, "LEGAL" language........If any Code Official does not
agree with what has been adopted, then propose language to the
"adopting powers that be" to have that Code Section amended in their
adopted codes.......That way, ...it is a "Win Win" for every body.
The Legal Beagles are happy, ...the occupants are safer, ...the Code
Officials can [ hopefully ] sleep a little better & still have a job. :D

What's not to like...

Caution signs ahead **fatboy** [ RE: "I know it's not Code " ].

Remember one of the arms of the Code Holy Grail, ...Coverest
Thy AHJ's Legal Arse !


& ~ & ~ &
 
As someone who performed combustion spillage testing in homes, not only is a wood fireplace a potential carbon monoxide concern, it is the worst.

I would questions whether the intent of M1303 is simply to ensure factory assembled units are labeled with a permanent label containing critical information for the future, not to indicate that a space heating appliance lacking such a label is not an "appliance;' under the code. Assuming this was proposed by the insurance industry in order for their underwriters to better asses the fire risk in each dwelling, they would not be concerned with listing of site built wood fireplaces.
 
Done, in for an opinion from IRC.

The question to them is posted below, I believe I did not try to influence the opinion by the way I posed the question.


"R315.2.1 New construction. For new construction, carbon
monoxide alarms shall be provided in dwelling units
where either or both of the following conditions exist.

1. The dwelling unit contains a fuel-fired appliance.

We are having a debate in a forum, as to whether #1 of this Section applies to fireplaces. One argument being voiced is the fact that [F] 915.1.2 in the IBC speaks to it, where the IRC appears to be silent.

Does the presence of a fireplace in a IRC structure trigger the requirement for C.O. detection? Does the fireplace meet the intent of "fuel-fired appliance?""
 
Thanks

FIREPLACE. A fire chamber and hearth constructed of noncombustible
material for use with solid fuels and provided
with a chimney.
 
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Illinois actually got something right with this one, and makes it easy. In every dwelling unit with a sleeping room, a CO detector is required.


430 ILCS 135/10
Sec. 10. Carbon Monoxide Detector
(a) Every dwelling unit shall be equipped with at least one approved carbon monoxide alarm in an operating condition within 15 feet of every room used for sleeping purposes. The carbon monoxide alarm may be combined with smoke detecting devices provided that the combined unit complies with the respective provisions of the administrative code, reference standards, and departmental rules relating to both smoke detecting devices and carbon monoxide alarms and provided that the combined unit emits an alarm in a manner that clearly differentiates the hazard.

 
It appears Colorado wanted to make it clear also, from, HOUSE BILL 09-1091;


38-45-102. Carbon monoxide alarms in single-family dwellings

- rules. (1) (a) NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF LAW, THE

SELLER OF EACH EXISTING SINGLE-FAMILY DWELLING OFFERED FOR SALE OR

TRANSFER ON OR AFTER JULY 1, 2009, THAT HAS A FUEL-FIRED HEATER OR

APPLIANCE, A FIREPLACE, OR AN ATTACHED GARAGE SHALL ASSURE THAT AN

OPERATIONAL CARBON MONOXIDE ALARM IS INSTALLED WITHIN FIFTEEN

FEET OF THE ENTRANCE TO EACH ROOM LAWFULLY USED FOR SLEEPING

PURPOSES OR IN A LOCATION AS SPECIFIED IN ANY BUILDING CODE ADOPTED

BY THE STATE OR ANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT ENTITY.


(3) "FUEL" MEANS COAL, KEROSENE, OIL, FUEL GASES, OR OTHER

PETROLEUM PRODUCTS OR HYDROCARBON PRODUCTS SUCH AS WOOD THAT

EMIT CARBON MONOXIDE AS A BY-PRODUCT OF COMBUSTION.
 
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