JBI
REGISTERED
The IRC has the same language regarding 'fireplaces' that the IFC does, it's in R315.2.1.
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Carbon Monoxide Alarms
- Thread starter fj80
- Start date
fatboy
Administrator
The counterpoint was that it does not specifically call out "fireplaces".
north star
MODERATOR
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- Messages
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Did the Colorado Bill pass adoption for the state ?
If so, does your AHJ require any type of adoption
of that Bill to be enforceable ?
Thanks !
# * # * #
Did the Colorado Bill pass adoption for the state ?
If so, does your AHJ require any type of adoption
of that Bill to be enforceable ?
Thanks !
# * # * #
fatboy
Administrator
Yes, it passed in 09, and yes, it is State law, so it must be enforced. Not really an option.
north star
MODERATOR
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Then go get `em sir !
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Then go get `em sir !
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fatboy
Administrator
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Then go get `em sir !
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I think ICC will come back with a supporting opinion on the intent of the Section, if not, perhaps a code Change is in order?
Yes, Fireplace is defined in IRC (2015) Chapter 24, but more to the point, so is "appliance", different than the definition of "appliance" in Chapter 3:
IRC (2015) Chapter 3, R202:
"Appliance. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements."
IRC (2015) Chapter 24, G2403:
"Appliance. Any apparatus or device that utilizes a fuel or raw material to produce light, heat, power, refrigeration or air conditioning."
So, for Chapter 3, an appliance is manufactured, which implies it is a factory built thing, but I suppose something could be manufactured on-site and not in a factory. The question sort of is: "Does the use of the word 'appliance' in para. R315.2.1 refer to the definition in Chapter 3 or the definition in Chapter 24; and if to Chapter 3 does it restrict application to dwelling units with factory manufactured fuel-fired appliances?"
If I were the AHJ I would say no-way no-how, a fireplace is an appliance, don't care where it is made, put in the carbon monoxide detector.
IRC (2015) Chapter 3, R202:
"Appliance. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements."
IRC (2015) Chapter 24, G2403:
"Appliance. Any apparatus or device that utilizes a fuel or raw material to produce light, heat, power, refrigeration or air conditioning."
So, for Chapter 3, an appliance is manufactured, which implies it is a factory built thing, but I suppose something could be manufactured on-site and not in a factory. The question sort of is: "Does the use of the word 'appliance' in para. R315.2.1 refer to the definition in Chapter 3 or the definition in Chapter 24; and if to Chapter 3 does it restrict application to dwelling units with factory manufactured fuel-fired appliances?"
If I were the AHJ I would say no-way no-how, a fireplace is an appliance, don't care where it is made, put in the carbon monoxide detector.
north star
MODERATOR
- Joined
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**fatboy**,
Please let us know what the opinion of The Cow is when
they provide one to you.
This particular thread seems to be evolving in to
another "Stairway To The Attic" topic.
Thank you sir !
@ ~ @ ~ @
**fatboy**,
Please let us know what the opinion of The Cow is when
they provide one to you.
This particular thread seems to be evolving in to
another "Stairway To The Attic" topic.
Thank you sir !
@ ~ @ ~ @
Thanks, fatboy. I look forward to hearing their response.
IRC defines an appliance as "Any apparatus or device that utilizes a fuel or raw material to produce light, heat, power, refrigeration or air conditioning."
And IRC defines as "A fire chamber and hearth constructed of non-combustible material for use with solid fuels and provided with a chimney."
Based on these definitions, my money's on ICC saying wood-burning fireplaces are appliances and CO alarm is required.
Francis Vineyard
REGISTERED
Our experience with ICC opinions are similar to the different opinions expressed on this forum. A couple of times we have called them back twice and received two difference answers.
It's the official interpretation that's counts; but even those are subject to change e.g. definition of level of exit discharge.
A response either way will be interesting when considering for example the code sections that speaks to return air cannot be taken less than 10 ft. from an open combustion chamber (appliances), but allowed less than 10 ft. from an open fire chamber (fireplaces).
M1602.2 Return air openings.
Return air openings for heating, ventilation and air conditioning systems shall comply with all of the following:
1. Openings shall not be located less than 10 feet (3048 mm) measured in any direction from an open combustion chamber or draft hood of another appliance located in the same room or space.
COMBUSTION CHAMBER. The portion of an appliance within which combustion occurs.
EXCESS AIR. Air that passes through the combustion chamber and the appliance flue in excess of what is theoretically required for complete combustion.
[RB] FIREPLACE. An assembly consisting of a hearth and fire chamber of noncombustible material and provided with a chimney, for use with solid fuels.
FIREPLACE STOVE. A free-standing, chimney-connected solid-fuel-burning heater designed to be operated with the fire chamber doors in either the open or closed position.
FLUE, APPLIANCE. The passages within an appliance through which combustion products pass from the combustion chamber to the flue collar.
It's the official interpretation that's counts; but even those are subject to change e.g. definition of level of exit discharge.
A response either way will be interesting when considering for example the code sections that speaks to return air cannot be taken less than 10 ft. from an open combustion chamber (appliances), but allowed less than 10 ft. from an open fire chamber (fireplaces).
M1602.2 Return air openings.
Return air openings for heating, ventilation and air conditioning systems shall comply with all of the following:
1. Openings shall not be located less than 10 feet (3048 mm) measured in any direction from an open combustion chamber or draft hood of another appliance located in the same room or space.
COMBUSTION CHAMBER. The portion of an appliance within which combustion occurs.
EXCESS AIR. Air that passes through the combustion chamber and the appliance flue in excess of what is theoretically required for complete combustion.
[RB] FIREPLACE. An assembly consisting of a hearth and fire chamber of noncombustible material and provided with a chimney, for use with solid fuels.
FIREPLACE STOVE. A free-standing, chimney-connected solid-fuel-burning heater designed to be operated with the fire chamber doors in either the open or closed position.
FLUE, APPLIANCE. The passages within an appliance through which combustion products pass from the combustion chamber to the flue collar.
fatboy
Administrator
Yes, all I asked for is the OL, Opinion Light, not a formal opinion. 
I live in Burnaby and almost everybody in my neighborhood has a CO alarm installed. I got one installed when I moved in. I think it is much safer if you have a CO alarm installed. Many people are hospitalized because of CO poisoning. It is also good to get them checked on a regular basis. I once lost the power to the batteries and I couldn't get the alarm system to work, I finally had to call in a Burnaby security company to fix the batteries.