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Card reader in Stairwell Enclosure

J

jrpros

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
4
I understand that NFPA 101 states that penetrations in exit enclosures are limited to those serving the stairway. We have run into a situation where a Joint Commission inspector has declared that a wall mounted card reader (let us assume it is properly protected according to 8.2.3.4) is not allowed. The facility in question has now decided to go through and change all electrified locks on stairwell doors to an integrated type of lock (card reader integral to the lock, mounted on the door).

Does anybody care to provide an argument in favor of allowing the wall mounted readers?
 
So what about all the other penetrations there are

The reader serves the stairway door

What is it going to hurt???

Did they give you a code section?? If not would nicely ask for one, or last step ask for a supervisor

Also ask Lori one thread up, send her a private message

Also if they are doing something to a rated door, just might be a bigger no no.
 
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Do they give a (code)reason for not allowing it?

This has to be considered for the penetrations, and I belive CT has made this section even more restrictive.....

1019.1.1 Openings and penetrations.

Exit enclosure opening protectives shall be in accordance with the requirements of Section 715.

Except as permitted in Section 402.4.6, openings in exit enclosures other than unexposed exterior openings shall be limited to those necessary for exit access to the enclosure from normally occupied spaces and for egress from the enclosure.

And then I would watch out for........

1003.3.3 Horizontal projections.

Structural elements, fixtures or furnishings shall not project horizontally from either side more than 4 inches (102 mm) over any walking surface between the heights of 27 inches (686 mm) and 80 inches (2032 mm) above the walking surface.

Exception: Handrails serving stairs and ramps are permitted to protrude 4.5 inches (114 mm) from the wall.
 
Does anybody care to provide an argument in favor of allowing the wall mounted readers?
Click to expand...
Not familar with 101 but under the IBC

Chances are the card reader installation in not a penetration it is a membrane penetration which is allowed

MEMBRANE PENETRATION. An opening made through one side (wall, floor or ceiling membrane) of an assembly.

708.8 Penetrations.

Penetrations in a shaft enclosure shall be protected in accordance with Section 713 as required for fire barriers .

708.8.1 Prohibited penetrations.

Penetrations other than those necessary for the purpose of the shaft shall not be permitted in shaft enclosures.

The above sections refer to penetrations not membrane penetrations and are used to keep ductwork, plumbing, electrical conduits and other items from passing through a shaft. To apply those sections to a card reader system is overbearing and wrong.
 
MT...Our State BO has issued an interp that even membrane penetrations are not allowed.....(in vertical exit enclosures).....on the basis that the "enclosure" starts at the outermost membrane.....If it is not life safety or egress, it does not penetrate even a single membrane....I do not know if he consulted ICC or NFPA or if it is his own doing, but I kinda agree!

Picture a 4" gasline in a 10 story stairwell wall......do you want to have to approve it?

mtlogcabin said:
Not familar with 101 but under the IBC Chances are the card reader installation in not a penetration it is a membrane penetration which is allowed

MEMBRANE PENETRATION. An opening made through one side (wall, floor or ceiling membrane) of an assembly.

708.8 Penetrations.

Penetrations in a shaft enclosure shall be protected in accordance with Section 713 as required for fire barriers .

708.8.1 Prohibited penetrations.

Penetrations other than those necessary for the purpose of the shaft shall not be permitted in shaft enclosures.

The above sections refer to penetrations not membrane penetrations and are used to keep ductwork, plumbing, electrical conduits and other items from passing through a shaft. To apply those sections to a card reader system is overbearing and wrong.
Click to expand...
 
Since the card reader serves the stairway, it should be allowed. Ask the Joint Commission for a reading. They may over rule the inspector.
 
Can you also argue the requirement for the firefighters to be able to access the floors using the card reader???

I have a vide stretcher if you need one
 
The code has provisions for stairway re-entry and unlocking upon fire alarm.
Click to expand...
That very likely is incompatible with "card reader integral to the lock, mounted on the door".
 
are there electrical outlets, switches and lights in this stairwell? if so, they also "penetrate the enclosure". card reader should be allowed. fire caulk around all conduit entry points (like behind the reader body), and let 'er go
 
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