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Certification website?

M

MtnArch

Sawhorse
Joined
Dec 25, 2009
Messages
437
Location
San Juan Bautista, California
Not sure if this is the best place for my question, but here goes:

Most (all) states have online databases for searching for a licensed individual (architects, engineers, etc.) and some (like California) have them for contractors. Is there somewhere to see what certifications an inspector/cbo/plan reviewer/etc. have? Or is it something that would be disclosed at a local level (if allowed)?

I won't go into the story here, but I'd like to see what an problem individual has for certifications.

Thanks!
 
$ = $

Are you wanting to find out certs. from ICC or somewhere else ?

Here is a Link to the ICC search function.

www.iccsafe.org

Search for Certified Professionals - ICC

Search for Certified Professionals The ICC Certification Search contains information on individuals who may be currently certified with the International Code Council, but is not the official record. Certificates should...
www.iccsafe.org www.iccsafe.org

$ = $
 
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Does this individual work for a city or county? If so you should be able to contact HR directly, or go straight to a public records request.
 
# ~ ~ ~ #

MtnArch, ...please do not limit your search to the ICC or IAPMO organizations.
Your particular individual may have certifications from a Trade \ Technical
school, ...a community college, ...from an online site, or other.

ICC & IAPMO are not the only organizations offering training in the
various Codes \ Standards.............NFPA also offers training.

Just sayin'...

# ~ ~ ~ #
 
Please clarify why a certification is required.

Certifications are typically something that are not a legal requirement in the context of California Law.
 
This individual lists themselves as a "CBO" and works for a 3rd party plan checking company. The 3rd party company is contracted to provide plan checking and also acting as the CBO. I have assumed that the use of the "CBO" after your name would indicate certification of some type - and I assumed it would be by the ICC. The individual isn't a licensed architect, engineer or contractor in California; I assume that somewhere in the city ordinance there's a listing of the qualifications required for the Building Official, but I haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet.
 
CBO is ICC's designation for Certified Building Official.

The position title should not align, but should simply be BO = Building Official. That said, I have seen Chief Building Official which has the same CBO acronym.
 
CBO can also be the acronym for the job title of Chief Business Officer, but I doubt that's a point of confusion in this case.

2022 California Building Code states:

[A] 103.2 Appointment
The building official shall be appointed by the chief appointing authority of the jurisdiction.

[A] 104.1 General
The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.

CBC 104 goes on to list other duties and powers of the building official.

CBC defines:

[A] BUILDING OFFICIAL. The officer or other designated authority charged with the administration and enforcement of this code, or a duly authorized representative.

You could check and see if the local jurisdiction adopted 2022 CBC Appendix A:

[A] A101.1 Building Official. The building official shall have not fewer than 10 years' experience or equivalent as an architect, engineer, inspector, contractor or superintendent of construction, or any combination of these, 5 years of which shall have been supervisory experience. The building official should be certified as a building official through a recognized certification program. The building official shall be appointed or hired by the applicable governing agency.
 
Joe.B said:
CBO can also be the acronym for the job title of Chief Business Officer, but I doubt that's a point of confusion in this case.

2022 California Building Code states:

[A] 103.2 Appointment
The building official shall be appointed by the chief appointing authority of the jurisdiction.

[A] 104.1 General
The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.

CBC 104 goes on to list other duties and powers of the building official.

CBC defines:

[A] BUILDING OFFICIAL. The officer or other designated authority charged with the administration and enforcement of this code, or a duly authorized representative.

You could check and see if the local jurisdiction adopted 2022 CBC Appendix A:

[A] A101.1 Building Official. The building official shall have not fewer than 10 years' experience or equivalent as an architect, engineer, inspector, contractor or superintendent of construction, or any combination of these, 5 years of which shall have been supervisory experience. The building official should be certified as a building official through a recognized certification program. The building official shall be appointed or hired by the applicable governing agency.
Click to expand...
The authority of the building official derives from being appointed as a building official not from having a certificate.

What is a "recognized certification program? What criteria is used in recognizing and by who? Note that it does not say ICC certification.

I think that the statute has problems in that it attempts to create a licensing system not adopted by the state. Cam the state delegate such authority to a private entity such as ICC? Could it be that ICC is trying to establish a monopoly?
 
I'm not clear if a CBO is certified or certificated.

I'm an ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre. A certain amount of experience that is vetted, an exam, and requires documented work - a third of your time ( ~700 hours a year) - and a certain amount of continuing education. That's all checked at each 5 year renewal of certification. The intent is to certify only people in the top third of the profession.

I can go spend a day or several at a workshop or class, and at the end receive a certificate. There's no vetting of your abilities, even if there is s test of some kind. No assurance of actually attending and being awake.

Certified versus certificated. Does ICC have any liability for the actual proficiency and professionalism of it's CBOs or did they just pass a test? Do they have documented experience and training like a registered design professional, in addition to passing a test?
 
bill1952 said:
I'm not clear if a CBO is certified or certificated.

I'm an ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre. A certain amount of experience that is vetted, an exam, and requires documented work - a third of your time ( ~700 hours a year) - and a certain amount of continuing education. That's all checked at each 5 year renewal of certification. The intent is to certify only people in the top third of the profession.

I can go spend a day or several at a workshop or class, and at the end receive a certificate. There's no vetting of your abilities, even if there is s test of some kind. No assurance of actually attending and being awake.

Certified versus certificated. Does ICC have any liability for the actual proficiency and professionalism of it's CBOs or did they just pass a test? Do they have documented experience and training like a registered design professional, in addition to passing a test?
Click to expand...
How do certifications confer power?

ICC makes money by rubber stamping evaluation reports prepared by engineers paid for by manufactures of the product that is the subject matter of the report. Is there a conflict of interest.

Evaluation reports are often used to create an effective code change. This effectively gives ICC the ability to bypass the legal process for changing the building codes.
 
Mark K said:
ICC makes money by rubber stamping evaluation reports prepared by engineers paid for by manufactures of the product that is the subject matter of the report. Is there a conflict of interest.
Click to expand...
ICC followed the NRTL playbook. The manufacturer submits the product along with a blank check and a ESR/Listing is forthcoming. It is incumbent upon the regulators to evaluate the product as well as the installation instructions. A Listing or ESR does not approve anything...the jurisdiction approves at it's own discretion.

In my experience, if you see something that's sketchy, ask questions. Don't feel compelled to approve anything based solely on the answers you get. It will happen that sometimes you just know better.

An ESR/Listing is an opinion. Opinions can be based on facts or pulled out of thin air. There is the virtuous, the hybrid and the sham. After you find the first flawed one, you tend to heighten your vigilance. Several in you have an "Aw Shlt" moment and understand the imperfections of the system.

Isn't that what being an inspector is all about?
 
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Mark K said:
How do certifications confer power?
Click to expand...
The power comes from all the people that lack certifications. Had it been possible to be hired by LA County as a Building Engineering Inspector sans certifications, I might have been inclined to give that a shot. Of course the waiting list would be akin to what happens with border jumpers.....show up in seven years. It would not have gone splendidly as I had no idea how much I didn't know... come to think of it, it's still a lot...enough so that sometimes I wonder how I got the nod.

The paths to the job today are many and were few when I started. The accepted theory about certifications is that the holder has proven a proficiency in the discipline to the extent that they will now test yours. Well despite all of the alternate facts, there is a truth about that.
 
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MtnArch said:
Not sure if this is the best place for my question, but here goes:

Most (all) states have online databases for searching for a licensed individual (architects, engineers, etc.) and some (like California) have them for contractors. Is there somewhere to see what certifications an inspector/cbo/plan reviewer/etc. have? Or is it something that would be disclosed at a local level (if allowed)?

I won't go into the story here, but I'd like to see what an problem individual has for certifications.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
In addition to ICC certifications, Oregon has it's own Certification Requirements. Click HERE to search an inspector's certs.
(For instance, type GIFT to verify my Oregon Certs.)
 
& = &

bill1952,

CBO is a Certified Building Official, as designated by ICC.

ICC does not have any liability about proficiency or professionalism.
The individual has passed the various tests to obtain the certification.
That's all !.........ICC does not check or care about an individual's
level of experience or training..........They are not that far in to the
"Nanny State" yet !

& = &
 
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north star said:
& = &

bill1952,

CBO is a Certified Building Official, as designated by ICC.

ICC does not have any liability about proficiency or professionalism.
The individual has passed the various tests to obtain the certification.
That's all !.........ICC does not check or care about an individual's
level of experience or training..........They are not that far in to the
"Nanny State" yet !

& = &
Click to expand...
Well, I think if you research certified versus certificated (or other terms for earning a certificate) you might agree that CBO is a certificate program, and not certification. It's proof of having a passing grade on an exam, not of competency or experience or proficency. Nothing wrong with it and very common. But contrast it with professional design registration, where education, apprenticeship, and examination as well as continuing education are all required. IMHO, ICC could do better.
 
bill1952 said:
Well, I think if you research certified versus certificated (or other terms for earning a certificate) you might agree that CBO is a certificate program, and not certification. It's proof of having a passing grade on an exam, not of competency or experience or proficency. Nothing wrong with it and very common. But contrast it with professional design registration, where education, apprenticeship, and examination as well as continuing education are all required. IMHO, ICC could do better.
Click to expand...
I think this is a really good point, and I think why it's important to designate that "Building Official" is a job title and a position that is referenced in many codes and laws as having a certain amount of authority. I.e. Authority Having Jurisdiction. Most jurisdictions require the person they have selected to have a certification, or many certifications, and that combined with other qualifications is what gives the person the ability to hold the job.

In my opinion if you don't have the job, you're not a building official, regardless of what certifications you have. This is different than being a PE or an Architect. You are an Architect or Engineer regardless of what work you do, if any.
 
bill1952 said:
It's proof of having a passing grade on an exam, not of competency or experience or proficency.
Click to expand...
The title says it all. I was in a police supply store buying a ticket book for violation slips. As I was leaving the lady clerk said “Be safe out there officer.” I said that I am not a police officer to which she asked what I was. I told her that I was a building inspector to which she said, “That’s worse than the police. Police can take you to jail but you can take their house.”
 
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