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Changing panel

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mfichter80 said:
You guys are hilarious.
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Guys....Answer the question and you will earn my respect, (not that you care about it, but anyway) keeping dodging and no one is going to respect you. How would you compliantly install the required disconnect on an air handler in an attic or crawlspace? I think they do that in VA and WA don't they?
 
steveray said:
Guys....Answer the question and you will earn my respect, (not that you care about it, but anyway) keeping dodging and no one is going to respect you. How would you compliantly install the required disconnect on an air handler in an attic or crawlspace? I think they do that in VA and WA don't they?
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Clearly it isn't addressed, so you can't. You can find examples like that with all kinds of code stuff. But if the handbook refers to that code applying to switches and HVAC equipment, and using volt meters, the handbook is a better authority than you are, so I'm going with the handbook interpretation. I'm not acting like I know everything. But some of you guys on here were ganging up on filthy mcnasty, which is not cool. And this was an arbitrary fight that ICE chose to pick when responding to one of my comments, which was not directly related to this thread.

You guys look like a bunch of jerks.

Since it's all about "earning respect" here, how about this:

-Bigger disconnects, for three phase systems, unfused. They are "just a switch" so they don't need working clearance?

-Go home and short out a 60 amp 240 v circuit, then come back on here and tell everyone a 60 amp disconnect doesn't need working clearances.

-Do you understand any of the troubleshooting process of addressing issues on an outside unit? When they get older they pull more amperage, sometimes to the point of tripping the breaker. So it might make sense to check the voltage and amp draw at the disconnect.
 
So, are you saying you have never wired a unit like that?

Why would I be dumb enough to short a 60A/240V?....With the required arc flash gear and safety gear required by 70E, shouldn't be a problem...
 
steveray said:
So, are you saying you have never wired a unit like that?

Why would I be dumb enough to short a 60A/240V?....With the required arc flash gear and safety gear required by 70E, shouldn't be a problem...
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So this is a bulletin board of trolls. I thought you guys were inspectors, or at least people who want this to be an informational resource. You're a joke. I'm deleting this account and getting my information elsewhere. Have fun in your echo chamber.
 
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I believe it is time to shut down the arguments, y'all have stated your opinions, many times, and nobody is changing anybody's minds now. It's come down to name calling and rhetoric. So, lets just let it go, and we won't have to lock the thread down. More than my opinion, a PM was sent to me regarding the thread.
 
I understand that you may rule this forum, but truth hits right between the eyes. I've posted the correct information for anyone out there that may be reading this thread.
 
Rick18071 said:
So filthy your saying that We could never allow any any equipment or switches in attics or crawl spaces without the required 6.5' head room.
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No. You're saying that. And - you are trying to use a completely different hypothetical situation to influence the thread. That my friend, is called flawed logic.
 
Filthy McNasty said:
I understand that you may rule this forum, but truth hits right between the eyes. I've posted the correct information for anyone out there that may be reading this thread.
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Yeah they just want people to honor them as the unchallenged authorities in their domain. They don't want any real discussion or discourse.

Notice how a lot of my comments, even when I have a different view I still say things like "that's a good point" or "I hadn't thought of that." That's because I am a civilized adult that treats people with respect. Not these guys though. These guys are "real men" I guess. Can't challenge the authority of a real man, he has to stand his ground no matter what, even when he's wrong. As if he's a 2 year old who wants a piece of candy. It's pathetic.

It's too bad because otherwise this is a good forum that has a lot of people looking at it and giving their input.
 
mfichter80 said:
Yeah they just want people to honor them as the unchallenged authorities in their domain. They don't want any real discussion or discourse.

Notice how a lot of my comments, even when I have a different view I still say things like "that's a good point" or "I hadn't thought of that." That's because I am a civilized adult that treats people with respect. Not these guys though. These guys are "real men" I guess. Can't challenge the authority of a real man, he has to stand his ground no matter what, even when he's wrong. As if he's a 2 year old who wants a piece of candy. It's pathetic.

It's too bad because otherwise this is a good forum that has a lot of people looking at it and giving their input.
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What I really like about this website is the forum "mechanics" - the website always seems to work flawlessly. I can't say that for the ICC website.

As far as the electrical code discussion here - I find it to be well below-average. As you described, it seems to be "consensus building" for making oneself feel good about interpreting the code incorrectly, or doing the installation against code. True code-mongers realize that education is a never ending process. I'm going to keep posting the correct information in case someone out there reads these threads, at least the info will be here, somewhere.

What I won't do - is to respond to hypotheticals that change the subject matter of the thread entirely: "There is an electrical panel in a cave up in the mountains. To get in the cave there is a gate that is closed with a chain and lock. I'm the only one who has the key....is it still an electrical code violation if I don't put the panel cover back on..." - that kind of stuff which seems to happen quite a bit here.

Heck, I think today someone even made a derogatory remark about Mike Holt. While maybe he will say something I don't agree with from year to year, that website gets down to the nitty-gritty code issues as they are intended to be interpreted from the people that write the NEC.
 
Filthy McNasty said:
What I really like about this website is the forum "mechanics" - the website always seems to work flawlessly. I can't say that for the ICC website.

As far as the electrical code discussion here - I find it to be well below-average. As you described, it seems to be "consensus building" for making oneself feel good about interpreting the code incorrectly, or doing the installation against code. True code-mongers realize that education is a never ending process. I'm going to keep posting the correct information in case someone out there reads these threads, at least the info will be here, somewhere.

What I won't do - is to respond to hypotheticals that change the subject matter of the thread entirely: "There is an electrical panel in a cave up in the mountains. To get in the cave there is a gate that is closed with a chain and lock. I'm the only one who has the key....is it still an electrical code violation if I don't put the panel cover back on..." - that kind of stuff which seems to happen quite a bit here.

Heck, I think today someone even made a derogatory remark about Mike Holt. While maybe he will say something I don't agree with from year to year, that website gets down to the nitty-gritty code issues as they are intended to be interpreted from the people that write the NEC.
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Not into electrical except changing a house fan, switch or outlet at my house


Do you mind saying what you do for a living ??
 
I think people aren't seeing others sides in this.

It's great that you are uncompromising on your interpretation of the code. And I know your going to say that it's not just your interpretation, its THE interpretation. but, please keep in mind that we have this argument so often we could play you back a recording. At the end of the day, you can walk away from something you're not comfortable doing. My town can't. We have to figure out a way to deal with things that don't appear to be addressed (or at least addressed well) by the codes. What can be challenging to understand about inspections and enforcement is that we are not expected to be code enforcement robots. The courts, our employers, contractors and the general public expect us to be able to work with them on issues of code where full application of the code is impossible or implausible. Keep in mind that the code cannot address every possible situation. We must take into account the objectives of the code and try to achieve those goals as much as possible where full code compliance is impossible or unrealistic. And it can be impossible for a couple of different reasons; technically impossible or financially impossible. Our main issue as inspectors, is that we have to remain consistent, so any decision we make has to be backed up on facts to create a policy. Policies are wrong all the time. But at the end of the day, we have to prioritize what we are enforcing and how because we can't have an inspector on a job site 24/7. So we prioritize on has the biggest life safety issues and the biggest impact on our community. Yes we are buying liability when we do this, but there is no other way to do this.

The thing I love about this forum is that those of us who have been here a while, even our regular contractors, keep this a place for exchanging ideas and different perspectives. This tread disappointed me because it descended into personal attacks.

Also, not an electrician and don't inspect electrical...
 
  1. The issue and the code being discussed is not that hard to interpret.
  2. Unfused disconnects require working clearances.
  3. At times, AHJ's may make an exception for old construction.
  4. On new construction, it's a dead issue.
Don't be fooled by those stating that it's ambiguous.
 
Filthy McNasty said:
  1. The issue and the code being discussed is not that hard to interpret.
  2. Unfused disconnects require working clearances.
  3. At times, AHJ's may make an exception for old construction.
  4. On new construction, it's a dead issue.
Don't be fooled by those stating that it's ambiguous.
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Do you mind saying what you do for a living ?
 
Filthy kinda makes you work on your anger management skills, doesn't he!:D

Where's Brudgers?
 
Locking thread, Jeff can unlock if he wishes. I see no new information coming out, and it is coming down to personal attacks. You were warned a couple time a while back to keep it on topic and civil.
 
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fatboy said:
Locking thread, Jeff can unlock if he wishes. I see know new information coming out, and it is coming down to personal attacks. You were warned a couple time a while back to keep it on topic and civil.
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Take it easy fatboy. I'm pretty sure that a person like FN has heard it many time before and it has had no effect whatsoever. It's not fair if people have to listen silently.
 
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