Closers at Unit Entry Doors

[hughdint]

I am doing a job in NC that was permitted last year under the 2012 NCFC.
It is is a 3 story residential apartment building (type V-A).
I have always specified Spring Hinges for the unit entry doors and never had a problem until now.
The Fire Marshal is requiring the door to close and latch when opened any amount (like 1").
The 1012 NCFC says"

Section 703.2.3 Door Operation: Swinging fire doors shall close from the full-open position and latch automatically. The door closer shall exert enough force to close and latch the door from any partially open position.​

This agrees with what the fire-marshal is telling us, but how is this done practically? No amount of force applied to spring hinges will allow the door to close if only opened 1" and still allow the door to remain open 1.5 seconds to comply with the HC code.
I do not think that even a hydraulic closer would close a door if only opened 1" as both types of closers generate the force needed to close by being opened.
Is a powered door opener and closer required in this situation?
What are others doing to meet these competing code requirements?

 

[cda]

Maybe that is why it changed to from full open

 

[cda]

You might see if NCFC referenced NFPA 80 2013 edition


NFPA 80’s inspection requirements, one of the inspection criteria listed in section 5.2.3.5.2 (2013 edition) is:

(7) The self-closing device is operational; that is, the active door completely closes when operated from the full open position.


https://idighardware.com/2015/02/wwyd-fire-door-closing-cycle/

Or the fire marshal will accept that edition

 

[hughdint]

Thanks for the replies.
The FM is going to "work with us" if we add a third spring hinge.
Still do not understand the apparent conflict between these two sentences in the fire code:
Section 703.2.3 Door Operation: Swinging fire doors shall close from the full-open position and latch automatically.
The door closer shall exert enough force to close and latch the door from any partially open position.

 

[cda]

Thanks for the replies.
The FM is going to "work with us" if we add a third spring hinge.
Still do not understand the apparent conflict between these two sentences in the fire code:
Section 703.2.3 Door Operation: Swinging fire doors shall close from the full-open position and latch automatically.
The door closer shall exert enough force to close and latch the door from any partially open position.

""""I didn’t find anything specific in the IBC or NFPA 101 (let me know if I missed it!), but I found this in the 2012 International Fire Code (IFC) Commentary:

703.2.3 Door operation. Swinging fire doors shall close from the full-open position and latch automatically. The door closer shall exert enough force to close and latch the door from any partially open position.

IFC Commentary: Fire doors must be closed to be effective. Swinging fire doors should be frequently checked to make sure they close and latch on their own power from any position.

So, if a fire marshal is enforcing the IFC, then the door would have to close and latch from any position. I’m not sure how feasible this is, or whether a fire marshal would expect a fire door to close and latch from every possible position, but it would certainly meet the intent of the requirement – for fire doors to be closed and latched during a fire."""

https://idighardware.com/2015/02/wwyd-fire-door-closing-cycle/

 

[ADAguy]

Another case of unintended consequences? No discussions with manufacturers before including this in code?

 

[IJHumberson]

The intent of the self-closer is to ensure the door closes and latches when an occupant leaves in the event of a fire - I typically open the door to what normally would be sufficient for a person to move through the doorway and let it go shut to see if it latches. I normally don't open it all the way (especially if it's a 180-degree opening door) because that's not the typical movement that would be expected when an occupant leaves the apartment.

 

[Yikes]

Adding my 2 cents to this old thread:
I looked at the IBC regarding spring hinge requirements. My CASp suggested I use spring hinges to retrofit an old existing apartment unit entry door to meet ADA without needing the usual 12" push side strike clearance, because in ADA a "spring hinge" (404.2.8.2) is not the same thing as a "closer" (404.2.8.1).

IBC 716.2.6.1 says: Fire doors shall be latching and self-closing or automatic-closing.
IBC 202 definition: SELF-CLOSING. As applied to a fire door or other opening protective, means equipped with a device that will ensure closing after having been opened.
That's about it.
IBC 716.2.9 requires the "labeled protective assemblies" to comply with NFPA 80, but a label on an assembly (door, frame, glazing) typically doesn't apply to the self-closing device.

So I'm not seeing anything the IBC that prevents spring hinges from complying with the requirements for doors to be self-closing.

 

[firefox]

Another 'digging up from the past' post.

Much like the OP in this case, I have a similar matter. The local code official is requesting for entry doors (equipped with spring hinges) in an apartment structure to be able to latch when the door is allowed to only be opened to a distance of 1" from the frame. The code used in this case is the 2012 IFC/IBC.

Based on the replies here, it appears that it is the consensus that the door should be able to latch closed from a 1 inch opening, is my understanding correct?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Another 'digging up from the past' post.

Much like the OP in this case, I have a similar matter. The local code official is requesting for entry doors (equipped with spring hinges) in an apartment structure to be able to latch when the door is allowed to only be opened to a distance of 1" from the frame. The code used in this case is the 2012 IFC/IBC.

Based on the replies here, it appears that it is the consensus that the door should be able to latch closed from a 1 inch opening, is my understanding correct?

I believe that is correct, but I remember that from so long ago that I haven't a clue where the requirement comes (or came) from.

 

[steveray]

Last I looked at NFPA 80 it was getting easier for rated doors to not close.... but maybe they fixed it in 2022....



Good thing there have been 10's of thousands of apartments with spring hinges that don't work....And more will be...