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Code change could make fire sprinklers mandatory in NY

MASSDRIVER

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cda said:
Not sure how they determine if a life was saved??people at home and got out??? people asleep and got out??

only 13 people were home in a 15 year period????

Total Working Fires in Sprinkled Buildings 199

* Types of Activations Commercial 102

Multifamily 48

Single Family 49

* Total Value of Complexes $767,334,000

* Total Structural Fire Loss for 199 Incidents $703,300

* Total Lives Saved 13

* Average Loss Per Sprinkled Incident $3,534

- Without Omega Failure at Joshua Tree Apartments $2,276

* Average Fire Loss @ Non-Sprinkled Structural Incidents $45,019

* Fires Controlled With Two or Less Sprinkler Heads (183/16) 92%
Something very misleading there; They call the average loss per sprinkled at $3,535, but loss TO FIRE Non Sprinkled at over 45 g's.

I bet they are not including water damage and cleanup. You can't do shlt for 3,500 bucks. They honestly want you to think that? I'm not buying it.

Brent
 

MASSDRIVER

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mark handler said:
Number of deaths in non-sprinklered homes vs number of deaths in Sprinklered homesNo deaths in Sprinklered homes
So we should abolish the code that requires smoke detectors, I think that's what you're saying. I agree. Obviously of no use.

Brent.
 
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cda

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A fire in a garage almost trapped a teenage girl inside an adjoining house after one of her exits was blocked by snow, but a sprinkler head deployed, buying enough time for her to scamper out the other exit to safety, firefighters said.

Firefighters, who had been called by neighbors, arrived Monday evening to find flames engulfing the two-car garage and beginning to spread into the 2 1/2-story wood-frame home in Derry. The garage collapsed with big parts of the roof intact, suppressing the fire below the roof and making it more difficult to put out the flames, firefighters said.

A 14-year-old girl was home at the time of the fire. The home was protected by a sprinkler system, and one sprinkler head between the garage and the home was activated, unleashing water onto the flames and preventing most of the fire from spreading to the house, firefighters said.

The girl was in the home's basement, but the "secondary exit out of the basement was blocked by snow," firefighters said.

The girl, aided by the sprinkler, scrambled out of the basement's primary exit and made it out through the home's front door, firefighters said. Without the sprinkler system, they said, the fire would have blocked her exit.

No injuries were reported in the fire, whose cause hadn't been determined. Firefighters found and rescued a dog, which was uninjured.

The sprinkler system ran out of water while firefighting crews used their hoses. Part of the fire extended into the home's attic and the roof of a porch.

The home's living area was damaged by smoke and water and will be uninhabitable until it's professionally cleaned, firefighters said. The garage was destroyed.

The fire loss, including the garage's contents, was estimated to be $150,000.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article10500161.html#storylink=cpy
 

tmurray

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cda said:
A fire in a garage almost trapped a teenage girl inside an adjoining house after one of her exits was blocked by snow, but a sprinkler head deployed, buying enough time for her to scamper out the other exit to safety, firefighters said.
This is exactly the problem. Firefighters are experts on extinguishing fires and fire rescue. They have a basic understanding of fire behavior, but it would not be enough to definitively make the above statement. This becomes anecdotal evidence that satisfies those who have a self-fulfilling prophecy regarding sprinkler heads. Namely; that they are instrumental to saving lives in single family residential construction. To the rest of us, stories like this only serve to push us further into cynicism. If someone had done fire modeling showing the effects with and without sprinklers and said that, I would believe them.
 

conarb

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Other anecdotal evidence, a man was frying chicken in an apartment in Truckee CA, a fire started in the grease, the sprinkler head was stupidly over the cook top and there was an explosion killing two and severely injuring two more, I linked the story 10 years or so ago. I used to eat lunch at a hamburger joint in Moraga CA while I was building a house there, one day when I showed up there was a big crowd gather around windows were covered with plastic and those big dehumidifier fans were running, there was no fire but a sprinkler went off during the night flooding two restaurants, several months later after the restaurant was rebuilt I asked the manager what happened, she said a HVAC unit overheated in the space between the dropped ceiling and the roof setting off the sprinkler below. Damage was somewhere between 1 and two million dollars, by getting the mold remediation people in immediately there was no mold, but remediation and remodeling cost that much, I linked that story at the time as well. BTW, when the restaurant was rebuilt there was much less seating, when they rebuilt they had to meet accessibility standards reducing the seating and profits in the restaurant, I stopped going there since there were long lines at lunch time.
 

JBI

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Getting back on track...

NYS is considering updating to the 2015 I-Codes with a limited NYS Supplement for each document.

Previously NYS published NYS Codes based on the I-Codes, currently the 2006 I-Codes, except for Energy which is based on the 2009.

Notice the cycles used... 2006 IRC did not require them.

If we amend them out it would be surprising, though consideration was given to a phase in period.

The strongest opposition is, of course, the Builders Association. Surprise, surprise, NOT.
 
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jwilly3879

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Living in northern NY with long cold winters freeze protection may be a problem. The jurisdiction I work in has a small municipal water system that serves many about 35% of our homes but the other areas, where most building is occurring, will have private wells and I am unsure how these will be handled. Last time I asked about this issue I was told that a storage tank and auxiliary pump could be required to meet supply. .
 

cda

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jwilly3879 said:
Living in northern NY with long cold winters freeze protection may be a problem. The jurisdiction I work in has a small municipal water system that serves many about 35% of our homes but the other areas, where most building is occurring, will have private wells and I am unsure how these will be handled. Last time I asked about this issue I was told that a storage tank and auxiliary pump could be required to meet supply. .
One example of a typical system that has been around for a long time

http://www.raimondofiresystems.com
 

mtlogcabin

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will have private wells and I am unsure how these will be handled
a 6 inch well casing holds 1.47 gallons of water per foot. My submersible pump is sitting at 150 feet and the water level in the pipe is between 20 and 25 ft. Basically 125 X 1.47 = 183 gallons of storage and a well that is capable of putting out 17 gallons per minute

IRC

Where a well system, a water supply tank system or a combination thereof is used, any combination of well capacity and tank storage shall be permitted to meet the capacity requirement.

A second pump is not needed if the storage tank is designed for pressure.

Remember it is either 10 minutes or 15 minutes depending on the size of the house. Fire departments should not be demanding more water because their response time is longer.
 

steveray

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According to NFPA's report from 2007-2011, 99.62% survival rate with hardwired smokes and CO.......it rockets to 99.87% with sprinklers and hard wire........
 

JBI

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Agree that a tank/pump system would likely be the choice if the private well can't produce adequate flow.
 

JBI

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I know this thread is effectively 'dead', but offer an update...
NYS has adopted the 2015 IRC AS AMENDED by our 2016 Uniform Code Supplement. That supplement removed the IRC sprinkler requirement and left in place the NYS requirement for sprinklers in 3 story homes only.
 
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