Commercial Bldg Walk-Thru

[Keystone]

Small municipality considering voluntary permission by way of written and mailed request to conduct a walk-thru of all commercial and industrial structures by the Fire Chief and Code Enforcement Official.

Back ground, Chief would like to update information, plans, etc... as this has never been conducted and many of the structures within the municipality are aged. Code official and Chief would offer verbal recommendations on what may be glaring life safety violations. The municipality would not be seeking to issue violation notices.

What is the concensus, is it a proactive approach or opening a can of worms?

 

[Builder Bob]

While it looks good for one stop trip - preplan and fire safety inspection.... it is a bad idea. Keep the pre-fire plans in the hands of the engine companies ( Good guys) and let them report any issues to the Fire Marshal Office (Bad guys) for follow-up at a later date. This keeps the business doors open for the engine companies to become familair with the structures........otherwise business owners may lock the front door when Big Red drives up ---- This has happened to the fire inspectors but has not happened to the Fire Apparatus GuyS in our area................

 

[mtlogcabin]

It can be both. Are they recommending they take the chain locks off of the second exit or are they going to follow through and make sure it was done. Sprinkler system has not been inspected in over 10 years is it a recommendation or a requirement to have it serviced. At some point you can't just make recommendations an AHJ would have to follow through on the life safety violations they find JMHO

 

[mark handler]

In CA most Fire Departments conduct annual fire inspections of Commercial and Industrial Buildings

 

[Inspector 102]

Agree that a proactive approach is a good idea, but preplanning and code enforcement need to be separate. Too easy to get tunnel vision and not see what you need to really be looking at. If preplanning discovers issues, a polite recoomendation is in order. Our Fire Inspector "tries" to inspect all commercial building annually. I try to maintain preplans through my building department and forward the plans to the fire department, since I am also a volunteer Asst. Chief, it makes it kind of easy. Monthly, I tried to report significant changes or new structures coming into the community and identify the access points, alarm locations, hazrds, etc. Small town makes it a whole lot easier.

 

[cda]

Key

Do they have an adopted fire code?

Yes I do think it is a start, for continued inspections

And with two departments hopefully they will stay involved and work together

It may also open a businesses eyes on problems, that they may not know about

 

[FM William Burns]

We use the same approach also but use separate methodioligies. Engine companies use the visits to use existing pre-plans to verify data or update for future inclusions into existing plans. They will inform our division if there are matters noticed that need attention. We use this data on our annual inspection program and depending on the matters they feel need attention and severity; determines our follow-up process. If there are locked or blocked egress issues discovered or hazardous contents or issues needing attention we will address them in a expidited and timely manner. To date the business and industries have not balked and this makes for a more pro-active approach in life safety for the community. The engine crews know going in that they are there to gather information and not conduct an inspection.

 

[Keystone]

Not certain I need to clarify but the Fire Chief is a separate individual from the Code Official and around here we use an outside Fire Marshal who is used for Fire investigations. The Chief is part of the engine company, small municipality.

I'm thinking tunnel vision may not be an issue due to the separate departments and individuals.

MTLOGCABIN - offering full amnesty is not realistic, it may be acceptable to tend to the more severe life safety violations but where to draw the line may be an issue.

CDA - Yes, IFC 2009 adopted as well as 09 IBC, IEBC, etc...

 

[permitguy]

Ditto FMWB. That is exactly how our department handles it and it works pretty well.

Not finding violations is one thing, but finding violations and not following up is irresponsible, IMHO. Seek advice from legal counsel on the immunity law in your state if that is the direction you're going to go.

If you're bored, research the Gold Rush Hotel fire (Alaska, 1970). Failure to follow up on violations led to the state being found liable in the deaths of 5 people after a fire. That led the legislature to strengthen their immunity laws.

 

[Keystone]

CORRECTION PLEASE - I WROTE, "it may be acceptable to tend to the more severe life safety violations but where to draw the line may be an issue."

SHOULD READ - it may be acceptable to tend to the LESS severe life safety violations but where to draw the line may be an issue.

Anyhow we kicked it to the solicitor for research, this wasn't an easy process as some citizens have thought it to be.

Thanks to all the replies.

 

[That Inspector Guy]

From a former career firefighter, now turned evil BCO/Fire Inspector: What is your intention? Is it for pre-planning, or is it to conduct a building/fire inspection????

Pre-Planning is done by the hose draggers, for the hose draggers. We want to know things like (but not limited to) -Where are the sprinkler connections? -Where are the closest hydrants? Where are the yard hydrants? Where are the standpipes? Where are the flammable liquids stored? -Where are the MSDS's located? -Where are the volatile processes done? -Where are the paint booths? -Where is the sprinkler riser? -Where is the electrical/utility room?

Building/Fire Inspections can be done by the hose draggers if properly trained. They can also enforce, depending on the AHJ's ordinances/codes and again if the hose draggers are trained in enforcement. I know some that are, others hand off the enforcement of their inspections to the Fire Marshal's Office.

Building/Fire Inspections can also be done by the Code Enforcement Office (again when properly trained and empowered.)

All that being said, I agree with the others- By inspecting and potentially finding violations (especially gross ones like chaining marked exits) and not enforcing correction is not only technically wrong, it is morally wrong for us. (Think Station Nightclub Fire.) Do you want to be part of a lawsuit filed by a building owner claiming you knew about a violation but did nothing?

If you are going to do Building/Fire Inspections, then go all-out and follow the letter of your adopted code for both inspection criteria and enforcement. If not, dont do the inspections.