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Commercial Kitchen as an Accessory Use

F

fousty

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
9
Location
San Francisco
I have a question regarding the use of the accessory use provision in the CBC section 508. I would like to designate a employee cafeteria with a commercial kitchen as an accessory use in a larger business use building. I meet all the requirements spelled out in section 508.

My question is that it seams odd that there wouldn't be a rated separation between the kitchen and the business uses. The kitchen has 2 wood burning ovens and several other pieces of kitchen equipment that use gas. It seams logical that a separation would be desired but I can't find any reference in the code that actually requires it.

I expanded my search to the Cal Fire Code and NFPA-90, but sill no requirement for separation is present. Any thoughts?
 
fousty said:
A2. It's not a Cafe/kitchen that serves only the employees.
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A Commercial Kitchen is not a A2, alone

303.3 Assembly Group A-2.

Assembly uses intended for food and/or drink consumption including, but not limited to:

Banquet halls

Restaurants, cafeterias and similar dining facilities (including associated commercial kitchens)

Are you asking if the dining area AND the Kitchen need seperation from the B?

Depends on the number of occupants in the A2
 
Sorry my post was a bit unclear.

Per the CBC 303.3 A-2 use includes "Restaurants, cafeterias, and similar dining facilities (including associated commercial kitchens)"
 
Where are you getting that?

I am trying to use section 508 to say the cafe/kitchen is an accessory use. We meet all the requirements spelled out in section 508. If I can meet those requirements I don't have to have a rated separation. Correct?
 
fousty said:
where are you getting that? I am trying to use section 508 to say the cafe/kitchen is an accessory use. We meet all the requirements spelled out in section 508. If i can meet those requirements i don't have to have a rated separation. Correct?
Click to expand...
cbc 302.3.1
 
How many sq ft are you talking about??

And with wood burning ovens,,, are they hiring??
 
So here are few more detail. Sorry for not giving more at the beginning. I was hoping for an easy answer , but as we all know code is never an easy answer.

total sqft of building 121,400 sqft

B use 25,959 sqft

S-1 use 90,906 sqft

A-2 occupancy area 4,535 sqft

single story

fully sprinklered building.

Chapter 3 does allow for Assembly areas within a Business use to be considered as Business when the area and the occupant load is low. We do not meet these requirements. That is why I am trying to justify the non-separated spaces using the accessory occupancy in section 508. We meet all the requirements 508, we are well under the height and area limitations of 503.

What we keep getting hung up on is that there seams to be a gut reaction that kitchens should have a rated separation, especially with with the wood burning oven, but I can't seam anywhere in the code where this is required. Our design would prefer not to have a rated partition because the separation would be tricky and we would prefer to have custom doors into the space that would be hard to rate.

To add some more information I found a document from the Division of the State Architect of California yesterday. In this document (Section 1.10.1) they are talking about kitchens in schools not needing to be separated if the requirements of CBC 508 are met. Not our exact situation but pretty close. See below:

http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/dsa/pubs/IR_A-26_rev04-18-12.pdf

I think I'm in the clear here. I just want a second opinion.

Thanks
 
If this is an unlimited area building under IBC 507 then a separation is required under item #1

507.3.1 Mixed occupancy buildings with Groups A-1 and A-2.

Group A-1 and A-2 occupancies of other than Type V construction shall be permitted within mixed occupancy buildings of unlimited area complying with Section 507.3, provided:

1. Group A-1 and A-2 occupancies are separated from other occupancies as required for separated occupancies in Section 508.4.4 with no reduction allowed in the fire-resistance rating of the separation based upon the installation of an automatic sprinkler system;

2. Each area of the portions of the building used for Group A-1 or A-2 occupancies shall not exceed the maximum allowable area permitted for such occupancies in Section 503.1; and

3. Exit doors from Group A-1 and A-2 occupancies shall discharge directly to the exterior of the building.
 
mtlogcabin I would agree with you regarding the IBC, but the CBC modifies section 507.1 and provides an exception.

"Exception: Other occupancies shall be permitted in unlimited area buildings in accordance with the provisions of Section 508.2"
 
mtlogcabin sorry my wording in that post was a bit strange. The Cafe/Kitchen only serve the employees of the company. No outside people will be able to use the space.
 
fousty said:
mtlogcabin sorry my wording in that post was a bit strange. The Cafe/Kitchen only serve the employees of the company. No outside people will be able to use the space.
Click to expand...
Are you asking if the kitchen itself needs separation from the rest of the entire building?

Or the kitchen and dining area need separation from the rest of the entire building??

Treat it like a restaurant in a building
 
cda said:
Are you asking if the kitchen itself needs separation from the rest of the entire building?Or the kitchen and dining area need separation from the rest of the entire building??

Treat it like a restaurant in a building
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CDA, yes I am trying to treat it like a restaurant in a building. So I am asking if the cafe/kitchen/A2 space needs to be separated from the rest of the buildings.
 
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