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Commercial trucks and buses

R

retire09

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
365
Location
Alaska
Parking and repair garages for commercial trucks and buses are required to be sprinklered if over 5000 sf per 903.

Due to the confusion over what is a commercial truck, a definition has been provided in the 2015 which states:

Commercial Motor Vehicle. A motor vehicle used to transport passengers or property where the motor vehicle:

1. Has a gross weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more; or

2. Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.

With this new definition, it seamed to me that the focus was on the combustible upholstering in a passenger bus and the combustible property that may be contained in a truck over 10,000 pounds and the requirement would only apply to these types of truck and buses.

A local architect submitted a question concerning this is ICC for a building to store and repair loaders, excavators, dozers and other heavy equipment. None of these are trucks or buses and none carry passengers or property but the answer from ICC was that they were still considered to be commercial motor vehicles due to the size of their fuel tanks and the sprinkler requirement would still apply at 5000 sf.

This really surprised me and now I have no idea what the intent is based on the written code.

Do I have this all wrong or this just an unfortunate and flawed opinion from ICC?
 
It is a lousy definition as any dually and some single pickups are rated for over 10,000 lbs not to mention 16 passenger vans that individuals own.

I disagree with ICC I would not require sprinklers until the fire area met item 1 or 2. they are not motor vehicles they are equipment

[h=3]Light Duty Trucks[/h]The light duty trucks comprise of commercial truck classes 1, 2 and 3. The class is determined by the GVWR of the vehicle.

  • Class 1 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 0 to 6,000 pounds (0 to 2,722kg).
  • Class 2 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 6,001 to 10,000 pounds (2,722 to 4,536 kg).
  • Class 3 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 10,001 to 14,000 pounds (4,536 to 6,350 kg).
[h=3]Medium Duty Trucks[/h]The medium duty trucks comprise of commercial truck classes 4, 5 and 6. The class is determined by the GVWR of the vehicle.

  • Class 4 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 14,001 to 16,000 pounds (6,351 to 7,257 kg).
  • Class 5 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 16,001 to 19,500 pounds (7,258 to 8,845 kg).
  • Class 6 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 19,501 to 26,000 pounds (8,846 to 11,793 kg).
[h=3]Heavy Duty Trucks[/h]The heavy duty trucks comprise of commercial truck classes 7 and 8. The class is determined by the GVWR of the vehicle. Class 7 and 8 vehicles require that the driverhave a Class B CDL to operate the vehicle.

  • Class 7 – This class of truck has a GVWR of 26,001 to 33,000 pounds (11,794 to 14,969 kg).
  • Class 8 – This class of truck has a GVWR of greater than 33,001 pounds (14,969 kg), and includes all tractor trailers.
[h=3]Vehicle Regulations[/h]If a vehicle has a GVWR of over 10,001 pounds and is used for a business, which includes non-profit businesses, then they are subject to federal and state safety regulations. Even though a driver does not need a commercial driving license for Class 1 through 6 vehicles, every vehicle that has a GVWR over 10,001 pounds has to be identified with the name of the company and the US DOT Number. The driver has to operate under the regulations concerning hours of service and medical examinations are required for drivers. Any vehicle over 10,001 pounds is required to stop at state weight and inspection stations.

[h=3]Summary[/h]Truck classification is determined by the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and this determines the regulations that should be followed. A vehicle over 10,001 pounds means that the company and driver are required to follow regulations for the safe operation ofcommercial motor vehicles on US highways.
 
retire09 said:
Parking and repair garages for commercial trucks and buses are required to be sprinklered if over 5000 sf per 903.Due to the confusion over what is a commercial truck, a definition has been provided in the 2015 which states:

Commercial Motor Vehicle. A motor vehicle used to transport passengers or property where the motor vehicle:

1. Has a gross weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more; or

2. Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.

With this new definition, it seamed to me that the focus was on the combustible upholstering in a passenger bus and the combustible property that may be contained in a truck over 10,000 pounds and the requirement would only apply to these types of truck and buses.

A local architect submitted a question concerning this is ICC for a building to store and repair loaders, excavators, dozers and other heavy equipment. None of these are trucks or buses and none carry passengers or property but the answer from ICC was that they were still considered to be commercial motor vehicles due to the size of their fuel tanks and the sprinkler requirement would still apply at 5000 sf.

This really surprised me and now I have no idea what the intent is based on the written code.

Do I have this all wrong or this just an unfortunate and flawed opinion from ICC?
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"""repair loaders, excavators, dozers and other heavy equipment"""

So how big of building does the architect want to build or use????????? big enough for just one piece of equipement or ten pieces of equipment?????
 
I'm not sure of the exact size but over 5000 and less than 12,000.

I'm sure they will store all or as many pieces of equipment they can in it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
An opinion by ICC can help to interpret the adopted regulation but it cannot be used to justify requiring something not required by the adopted regulation.

Consider modifying the existing code.
 
Motor vehicles are designed for use on a highway. Loader, excavators, backhoes, bulldozers and other types of equipment are not. I would challenge you to find the manufactures listed Gross Vehicle Weight for each piece of equipment.

The problem with the 10,000 lb GVW definition is every garage over 5,000 sq ft that services dually and some 350 or 3500 series pickups over 10,000 GVW will have to be sprinklered. The code does not distinguish between a light duty class 3 regulated by DOT and a private pickup or 16 passenger van.
 
Does anyone know what the original intent was in 2009 when they added the sprinkler requirement for commercial trucks and buses?

Note P to table 307.1(1) excludes fuel in fuel tanks on vehicles which would at least imply that this fuel is not as great of a concern as other hazardous materials in a building. What is the true fire concern associated with larger vehicles? What are we looking for to trigger the sprinklers at 5000 sf?
 
What is the true fire concern associated with larger vehicles? What are we looking for to trigger the sprinklers at 5000 sf?
Click to expand...
Look up the amount of BTU's per pound of rubber tire. Flammable liquids, combustible liquids, ignition sources and materials with high HRR equal losses of buildings. Fire regulations are not just life safety concerns. There are environmental, health, economic and community factors that go into protection........IMHO
 
Would you not require the ventilation for motor vehicle repair garages in this application too?

I would agree with ICC interpretation on this one in accordance with 104.1 General. The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.

They have the right to appeal this decision and would document your position should an event occur similar to Mr. Burns #5 post.
 
A 5,000 sq ft shop will accommodate about 6 or 7 vehicles assuming a 16 x 40 space to get around and work on one. A lot of the newer trucks have fiberglass cabs and boxes on them. I don't have a problem with the 5,000 sq ft, I have a problem with the 10,000 GVW. I believe 14,000 GVW would have been more practical. Where I live and the tax credits that where given for diesel pickups over the past years I bet the majority of contractors,farmers and ranchers trucks would fall under this definition.
 
If it is large fuel tanks, tires or physical size that is the concern; why do they not have the same 5000 sf sprinkler requirement for U occupancy barns built to store large farm equipment? I would like to address the intent of the code if I could only understand what it is.
 
retire09 said:
Does anyone know what the original intent was in 2009 when they added the sprinkler requirement for commercial trucks and buses?Note P to table 307.1(1) excludes fuel in fuel tanks on vehicles which would at least imply that this fuel is not as great of a concern as other hazardous materials in a building. What is the true fire concern associated with larger vehicles? What are we looking for to trigger the sprinklers at 5000 sf?
Click to expand...
it was in the 2000

903.2.11.1 Commercial parking garages.

An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for storage of commercial trucks or buses where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).

one of those other codes have it??? all you younger code people??? ubc, icbo, scbo, fbi etc???
 
Old UBC by ICBO used 10,000 sq ft fire area in multi-story commercial parking garages & one story 12,000 sq ft fire area, and sprinklers required for any repair garage in a basement.
 
The OP states the 2015 code now provides a definition of a commercial vehicle. The 2000 to 2012 left it up to the AHJ to determine what a commercial vehicle was. It was pretty obvious to most every code official what a "bus" was but under the 2015 definition this would include 16 passenger vans including the driver.

Commercial vehicle are usually defined in state laws
 
It looks like the requirement has been around for parking garages but was expanded to include repair garages in 2009.
 
Commercial trucks and buses

With fuel and tires I don't know why a tractor trailer would be more dangerous than 6 cars that would take the same amount of space.
 
Now that we have a 10,000 bl. limit are we going to have to post guards at public parking garages that are not sprinklered to keep the large pick-up trucks out?
 
Rick18071 said:
Now that we have a 10,000 bl. limit are we going to have to post guards at public parking garages that are not sprinklered to keep the large pick-up trucks out?
Click to expand...
As a large pickup truck driver....most of them around here already do...
 
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